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Feb 3, 2025
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Rachel John, musical theatre, The Lion King, Hamilton, West End, swing, authentic voice, mentorship, hymns album
Introduction to Rachel John
In this episode of the Five Minute Call podcast, hosts Oren Boder and Claire Underwood welcome the talented Rachel John. With a career in musical theatre spanning nearly two decades, Rachel has graced the stages of major West End productions like The Lion King, Memphis, and Hamilton. Her journey from a secretary to a celebrated performer is nothing short of inspiring.
From Secretary to The Lion King
Rachel's entry into the world of musical theatre was serendipitous. Initially working as a secretary, she was encouraged by her then-boyfriend to audition for The Lion King. Despite having no formal training or aspirations in musical theatre, Rachel's natural talent shone through, and she landed a role in the show's Paris production. This unexpected opportunity marked the beginning of her illustrious career.
The Challenges and Joys of Being a Swing
Rachel shared her experiences as a swing in The Lion King, a role that required her to cover multiple tracks and adapt quickly to different performances. She described the role as challenging yet rewarding, highlighting the importance of being overprepared and the camaraderie among the cast and crew. Her time as a swing laid a strong foundation for her future roles in theatre.
Embracing Her Authentic Voice
Throughout her career, Rachel has learned to embrace her authentic voice, both on and off stage. She spoke about the pressures of playing lead roles and the journey to accepting her unique vocal style. Her upbringing in a Pentecostal church, where music was a central form of expression, played a significant role in shaping her vocal identity.
The Impact of Community and Mentorship
Rachel emphasized the importance of community and mentorship in her career. From her early days in The Lion King to her role in Hamilton, she has been supported by fellow performers and mentors who have guided her through the challenges of the industry. This support network has been crucial in helping her navigate the highs and lows of her career.
Creating Her Hymns Album
During the lockdown, Rachel found solace in music by creating an album of hymns titled 'From My Lips To God's Ear.' This project allowed her to reconnect with her roots and express herself freely without the constraints of a character. The album, which features a variety of musical styles, was a personal and professional milestone for Rachel.
Conclusion
Rachel John's story is a testament to the power of resilience, community, and authenticity in the world of theatre. Her journey from a secretary to a West End star is an inspiration to aspiring performers everywhere. Through her experiences, Rachel continues to inspire others to embrace their unique voices and pursue their passions with courage and determination.
Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Claire: Hello and welcome to The 5 Minute Call, the podcast that takes a deep dive into the stories of [00:00:05] the people that make theatre happen.
[00:00:06] Oren: This week we're talking to the wonderful Rachel John, who [00:00:10] has had an incredible career in musical theatre spanning nearly 20 years.
[00:00:14] Claire: [00:00:15] Rachel shares her inspiring journey from working as a secretary to unexpectedly landing her [00:00:20] first role in The Lion King, and then going on to star in major West End productions [00:00:25] like Memphis and Hamilton.
[00:00:26] Oren: She discusses the joys and challenges of being a swing, [00:00:30] the pressures of playing lead roles, and how she has grown to accept her authentic [00:00:35] voice both on stage and off stage.[00:00:40]
[00:00:43] Intro: Members of the company, this is [00:00:45] your five minute call. All beginners please make your way to the stage. This is your [00:00:50] 5 minute call, your 5 minute call.
[00:00:54] Claire: Rachel, thank you [00:00:55] so much for joining us on the 5 minute call. We are so delighted to have you here. I'm super excited [00:01:00] because we've known each other how many years?
[00:01:03] Rachel: Eons. [00:01:05] We, uh, beautifully happened upon each other during Memphis. So [00:01:10] 2014, and we're now in 2024, so [00:01:15] 2014 and, uh, yes, it was a very interesting process because I was an alternate in the show, [00:01:20] um, playing Felicia and it was the John Robbins, the wonderful [00:01:25] John Robbins that was like, you know, you should come and see Claire because I visit Claire.
[00:01:29] Rachel: [00:01:30] But where I'd seen you before that was I had an audition for Les [00:01:35] Mis, the most random thing ever. Out of the blue out of, I had no idea [00:01:40] why, um, went in for the first call and then Cameron's office rang me and were like, we'd love you to see [00:01:45] Claire and work with Claire. So we started with that audition and then I ended up in Memphis.
[00:01:49] Rachel: So we [00:01:50] reconnected with that. And then the Hamilton. journey began. So that's why, but I feel like I've just [00:01:55] always had cheers. I hear your voice in my head many times in many in the [00:02:00] room. Yes. Great voice.
[00:02:03] Claire: [00:02:05] So we're jumping way, way, way ahead. Can you tell [00:02:10] us your story? How do you come to be doing what you're doing?
[00:02:13] Rachel: Oh my goodness. I think, do you know what is [00:02:15] bizarre? I was thinking about this coming in on the. Train this morning. Next year will [00:02:20] be 20 years. I've been sort of doing this, which is crazy to [00:02:25] say. Um, because I never had a dream, a passion or a [00:02:30] thought about musical theatre at all. Um, yes. So that, that is the [00:02:35] secret.
[00:02:35] Rachel: I never thought about that in my life. I am the daughter of immigrants. [00:02:40] My parents came from Trinidad in the early seventies to come here. My mum was invited to do nursing. My dad [00:02:45] came as an electrician. Um, so my parents got here maybe about 1973, 72, [00:02:50] 73. Um, and straight away I was immersed as [00:02:55] in the womb and out of the womb into church.
[00:02:58] Rachel: I was in a [00:03:00] Pentecostal or some people call it evangelical or charismatic setting. So music is a [00:03:05] central focus of how we, um, express love for God in [00:03:10] worship, in, you you know, loud [00:03:15] expressive music and also being part of a Trinidadian culture, part of really [00:03:20] loud music, oral story. So all of it was just loud and expressive.
[00:03:23] Rachel: And that's how I learned to [00:03:25] kind of communicate feeling and express. And some people [00:03:30] probably now call that acting through song. I didn't know that church taught you about acting through song, [00:03:35] connecting lyric with song and intent and that choral thing. And [00:03:40] so I just grew up. In church singing, my mum sang, all my aunts and uncles sing or [00:03:45] play an instrument on my mum's side.
[00:03:47] Rachel: Um, my dad's not musical so much, [00:03:50] so no rhythm at all. Um, but I grew up at church with that environment [00:03:55] and no one ever said to me, this is music, this is what you should do, or this is how you [00:04:00] should absorb it. Nobody told me about getting it wrong or right. Um, I just remember this. [00:04:05] lady at Sunday school telling me, you know, you sing with your [00:04:10] ears.
[00:04:11] Rachel: I'd never heard anything like that. Sing with your ears. Incredibly
[00:04:14] Claire: liberating.
[00:04:14] Rachel: [00:04:15] So she said, stand here in the middle of, you're an alto, stand here. Didn't even know what that was. Cause they mix the [00:04:20] children's choir and the adults choir. So once a month we got to sing with the adults, which was great. [00:04:25] Um, and she said, stand here, you're an alto, but sing with your ears.
[00:04:27] Rachel: Don't sing until you listen to what's [00:04:30] happening. And so I just kind of. Learning is just singing was just everything and [00:04:35] music was just everything. And then also, I mean, a child of the 80s, you sang in [00:04:40] assembly, you grew up singing in assembly every morning. So you were, you know, started with the recorder.
[00:04:44] Rachel: So [00:04:45] you just learn all of these things by osmosis were kind of just, I suppose, [00:04:50] fanning the flame of some sort of talent that I didn't. Really even think [00:04:55] about, um, until funnily enough the BBC came to our church. They were [00:05:00] filming something. It was Why Don't You? That's what it's, see, I'm so my age now. And I was featured on Why [00:05:05] Don't You Join a Choir.
[00:05:06] Rachel: And so they came to film and we did a little [00:05:10] thing. I was singing a little bit of a lead and it still wasn't anything that I thought, this is [00:05:15] something I'm going to do. I thought church was really part of the singing thing. And I thought I was going to [00:05:20] be a teacher. That's what I was thinking about. And.
[00:05:23] Rachel: investing in and, um, [00:05:25] but I was forced to sing in the choir. Cause this [00:05:30] woman said, I've had a dream about you. and you've got a voice and it's going to be all over the world. [00:05:35] So I switched to Tom my mum and I was like, I was about seven. I was like, I have no [00:05:40] passion for this at all. I liked singing, but I didn't think about myself as a singer.[00:05:45]
[00:05:45] Rachel: Um, and that was that. I think I went to college. I did [00:05:50] everything I wanted to do. Went to uni. It was kind of drama a bit. I liked the acting, but [00:05:55] never thought about the singing. Um, until I got to uni, I did a [00:06:00] drama. and English degree. And my boyfriend at the [00:06:05] time, he played the saxophone and he was like, you're actually really, really good.
[00:06:09] Rachel: Am I? [00:06:10] Yeah, yeah, yeah. You should go to this audition. There's this audition in Manchester, and it was [00:06:15] for The Lion King. And it was open auditions. And I said, well, I don't think, I don't [00:06:20] think I should be singing in Shows, because again, the [00:06:25] reason that shows weren't really a place for me is because I'd never seen myself in [00:06:30] shows.
[00:06:30] Rachel: I liked things and my favorite musicals were Sound of Music. Loved watching [00:06:35] that on TV. Um, but never thought, I thought it was this space where you were either [00:06:40] Judy Garland or Julie Andrews. And I was like, that's who I, like, when they [00:06:45] sing, I feel something. And that was the same connection with church. I was like, it's the feeling [00:06:50] something and seeing something, like something, I don't know, something about that [00:06:55] excites me.
[00:06:55] Rachel: But musical theatre was never a thing because when I watched it, I was like, [00:07:00] none of these people look like me and none of the stories are things that I really know. I enjoy it, but somewhere [00:07:05] over there. Um, but yes, he made me go to this audition when [00:07:10] probably sang something terrible. Because he printed some sheet music that probably just [00:07:15] had some sort of like saxophone dots on it.
[00:07:17] Rachel: It probably wasn't even anything to complain. [00:07:20] Um, but I think I've probably sang like the greatest love of all or something like that. And Clement Ishmael, [00:07:25] who is still the international MD for Lion King all over the world, [00:07:30] kind of just went, yeah, you're okay. I don't know. It's a bit rough and I don't know where.[00:07:35]
[00:07:35] Rachel: This is, but we'll see what we think, went to London, did those [00:07:40] auditions, nothing came of it. They were like, you're just not, you're a good singer, but you're rough and you're [00:07:45] not really for shows, which was fine. I was like, Oh, great. Got an office job, worked in, [00:07:50] I was a PA for a bit. I was a secretary for a bit, customer services.
[00:07:53] Rachel: I loved it. I loved being with [00:07:55] people and I loved solving things and I loved singing in the choir. And that was that. [00:08:00] And then got a phone call about a year later, sitting at my desk from Pippa Alien. I was just like, [00:08:05] who is this? Because those days when you had a mobile phone, you only had a few numbers in it, because not everyone had a mobile, [00:08:10] do you know what I mean?
[00:08:11] Rachel: So this random number came up, I'm thinking, who's this? She's like, hi, it's Pippa, darling. [00:08:15] Who's Pippa? I'm thinking, who's Pippa? Just getting out this, writing down things, just writing, secretary [00:08:20] brain, just writing, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Put the phone down and I was like, oh my gosh, this is an audition. [00:08:25] For Disney to work in the theme park [00:08:30] in Paris, it was just, it was so random and, you [00:08:35] know, to cut a very long story short, the auditions then happened to be [00:08:40] across the road from where I was working in a little church hall because I was working at the Royal [00:08:45] Pharmaceutical Society at that point, um, little hall across the road.
[00:08:48] Rachel: And I ended up. I had these [00:08:50] auditions in my lunch break in suit and in [00:08:55] suits singing a bit of Rafiki. And that was that. And two weeks later, they were like, we really like you. We're [00:09:00] starting the show. It's in Paris. There's five shows a day. It's the first time [00:09:05] we've ever done this. And we'd really like you to come, but you're like a cover now, let me give a [00:09:10] bit of context.
[00:09:10] Rachel: I have never done musical theater. I didn't know what a cover was. I [00:09:15] just knew that I could sing a little bit and I was in my early twenties and I thought I'm moving to Paris. I was [00:09:20] like, right, how do we get there? What happens? Yeah. And two weeks later I was. Living [00:09:25] in Paris, working, working in a theme park, covering this role, but I [00:09:30] think just my, my secretary brain was like, if I make enough notes and I know enough people and [00:09:35] I get, I know enough people from enough departments and I knew I could hold harmony.
[00:09:39] Rachel: I knew I could hold the [00:09:40] tune and we could sing a harmony. So I said, if I do, if I. Figure this out. [00:09:45] This might be okay. I might be all right. And I remember the first night going [00:09:50] on, covering and going on and thinking, What? Well, what is this really? What have I [00:09:55] actually signed up to? There's a whole audience and there's this, but I thought I've done [00:10:00] this.
[00:10:00] Rachel: I've been at church with people. So people are not the problem. Just do you [00:10:05] know enough? Do you know enough? And are you enjoying it? And I think that's where the bugs start. I was like, Oh, this is. [00:10:10] Wow. Telling stories with song and character, and I think I [00:10:15] like this. I think I do. I think I do. So I lived there for just over a year in [00:10:20] Paris.
[00:10:20] Rachel: Had that most amazing time working for Disney. And then Pippa [00:10:25] rang again, and I auditioned for Town. And then, yeah, and then I started with The [00:10:30] Lion King in Town. So that's a very, that is like a zzzz. What did your
[00:10:34] Claire: [00:10:35] family think of that?
[00:10:36] Rachel: I think as well, because they've come across as immigrants. I think they're a little bit like, [00:10:40] Yeah.
[00:10:40] Rachel: If you want to try it, try it. And my dad has always said, have a go. If it doesn't work, you can always come [00:10:45] home. He's always said that. So, yeah. So, um, in true immigrant style, the day [00:10:50] when I moved to Paris on the Eurostar, um, my dad cooked, we [00:10:55] sat on the train and just ate. We just had this massive supper.
[00:10:57] Rachel: It was like 10 family members and me going, I [00:11:00] was like, yeah, that's how we do it. We all show up together and they settled me in and it [00:11:05] just, the support. was just from, from them. I mean, I have to thank my parents [00:11:10] because I wouldn't be here without them. They never said, what's this thing? It's not a proper [00:11:15] job.
[00:11:15] Rachel: Um, I think the idea of, I [00:11:20] think that thing of kind of with your faith, it's kind of like gifting. So they were just a bit like, well, if [00:11:25] this is the gift, then it will make room for you and things will, we'll see the fruit of it. And, [00:11:30] and are you okay? And. And we'll just work that out. So they went, just take it one job at a time.
[00:11:34] Rachel: If you [00:11:35] like it, you do. If you don't, you're a secretary. You can do that forever and you can do your teaching [00:11:40] degree. And so I wasn't, they were never like, don't do it. I think we were just all [00:11:45] really shocked at the speed. Cause I never, it's not something I prayed for or asked for or wanted [00:11:50] or desired. But somewhere in the middle of like these jobs, I was [00:11:55] like, I think I'd like.
[00:11:57] Rachel: This and I think I like [00:12:00] the feeling of working in a team in this way because I've done teamwork before [00:12:05] I just it's weird I just felt like all the skills were transferable. Yes, which they [00:12:10] are. Yeah Sounds like it's teamwork. It's team building. It's we're all working towards one goal. [00:12:15] There's a deadline I just all these things made sense to me But I, [00:12:20] I, I don't think I really had a chance to sort of stop and go, right, this is theater.
[00:12:24] Rachel: These are the [00:12:25] things you need to understand. This is the vocal health that you need to employ. So my voice was [00:12:30] everywhere. Sundays were brilliant. And then got to the middle of the week and I'm like, it's gone. I [00:12:35] don't, I don't understand. Like I've not done anything wrong. I've done the exact same thing. So why am I [00:12:40] tired of, you know, so there was a lot of working it out, big role at [00:12:45] that age.
[00:12:45] Rachel: That's a big thing. Yeah. That's a big thing. It was like Rafiki and there were five a [00:12:50] day. There were 25 minute shows. They're still doing it now. Um, there were five a day and they kind of [00:12:55] swing you what you do, maybe three a day and then do two, but you do every other one. It was weird, but [00:13:00] brilliant.
[00:13:00] Rachel: People loved it. But again, it, it, it was a lot of failing [00:13:05] forwards, a ton of it.
[00:13:07] Oren: Arguably is the best way, really, if [00:13:10] we're not, if we're not failing and we're not learning, I think. We're not evolving as much as we could as an [00:13:15] artist and I put the speed at which that has happened for you And [00:13:20]
[00:13:20] Rachel: I'm still here people are still [00:13:25] going They still let me keep turning up Like [00:13:30] maybe I'll just show up and and try and Fulfill the brief of whatever, [00:13:35] whoever I'm working for and always serve the audience or try and serve each other through it [00:13:40] all.
[00:13:40] Rachel: Because I've always thought to myself is so much bigger than the [00:13:45] show. And I think maybe that's the church thing as well, because it was always so much bigger than you get up and sing. It's [00:13:50] who are you serving and how are you. How are we all in one mind at the moment about this [00:13:55] one thing? What are we moving towards?
[00:13:56] Rachel: And I think because the way I experienced [00:14:00] music growing up, there was, there were never any, don't do that. Or your voice can't [00:14:05] sound like that, or that's too much vib, or you, that's too expressive. I think that [00:14:10] environment of like church where music's free, you can just carry on as much as you [00:14:15] want, pick up the instruments.
[00:14:15] Rachel: I picked up drums at one point as well, at church, because they were like, just try, just try [00:14:20] things. Looking back now, I think, That was the best way to learn because [00:14:25] nobody told me you can't. That's an
[00:14:27] Claire: incredible education. Yeah, what an incredible [00:14:30] environment. And
[00:14:30] Rachel: hugely rare, I would imagine. Yeah, and no one said, this is your type.
[00:14:34] Rachel: Like sometimes I've [00:14:35] heard people like, they go to drama school, they go to other things, they go, you shouldn't sing like [00:14:40] that. It's too, that's not, that's not your type. That's not where you should be. If you sing more like this person, you'll [00:14:45] get more jobs. And I think because I've bypassed. All of that being put in a box, [00:14:50] like vocally or whatever, I just then entered each job going, okay, this [00:14:55] is, this is me, but what would you like?
[00:14:56] Rachel: Can we have less vibrato? Okay. Can we have, okay. [00:15:00] Because no one ever said, Rachel, you shouldn't sound like that. [00:15:05] Before I'd entered. So I think maybe I'd, I don't know, I'd bypassed. Do you [00:15:10] know what I'm trying to say? Like bypass that and just, just enjoyed music.
[00:15:14] Oren: I think, oh, it's [00:15:15] so wonderful to, to, to come from that position, not, I mean, I would [00:15:20] have loved when I was younger to have had that much immersion in music and [00:15:25] community and to feel a part of, of, I mean, what you [00:15:30] must've felt as a kid in that environment.
[00:15:31] Oren: I can't even begin to imagine it's beautiful, [00:15:35] but then to take that. I need, first of all, I need to go and find [00:15:40] that woman that you said when you were age seven. I know. I need a little prediction like that, because [00:15:45] that is, yeah,
[00:15:45] Rachel: I was
[00:15:47] Oren: like, wow.
[00:15:49] Rachel: Yeah. [00:15:50] And mum was kind of like, you know, people, it is in an, in an atmosphere where people say things and stuff.
[00:15:54] Rachel: She's [00:15:55] like, look, if it's true, it's fine. If it's not, don't worry about it. You'll figure it out. But if it is something that's [00:16:00] true, then it will unfold itself for you.
[00:16:03] Oren: Yeah.
[00:16:03] Rachel: So I think there was no [00:16:05] pressure to. Fulfill some sort of brief, and then I could just enjoy music along the way. And I [00:16:10] have to say, I've always been a music fan.
[00:16:12] Rachel: I think that's a really [00:16:15] important thing, is even if you, you're on a job or you're not on a job, like, [00:16:20] don't lose the fandom. Like, there are artists that I just enjoy, that has nothing to do with, I'm [00:16:25] listening to this because I'm doing this show. Like, just enjoy it. Like, I still sing in the shower. I think those [00:16:30] things are so important, you know, because don't lose the The fun of what [00:16:35] music is, because when you are working, it can be quite concentrated and, [00:16:40] and there can be kind of pressure to fulfill those things.
[00:16:42] Rachel: But I just, again, I think [00:16:45] because of my upbringing, no one ever said, Don't do it. So I just enjoyed music and it was very [00:16:50] immersive. And, you know, you learn songs at Sunday school and like I say, assembly, assembly [00:16:55] bangers, that shapes you as well. If you know the words, now you grow up, you go, Oh, those are [00:17:00] the lyrics.
[00:17:00] Rachel: Yeah. Yeah. [00:17:05] Yeah.
[00:17:05] Claire: So that, that was the beginning. So when you were then immersed in [00:17:10] this. Theatre industry, and you are being asked less [00:17:15] vibrato, or can you do this here, or can you do that there? Did that just feel like, [00:17:20] oh yeah, I must have that in my toolkit, or was that a steep learning curve? That was
[00:17:24] Rachel: a steep learning [00:17:25] curve, because it was something really hard to switch off, because obviously with gospel and R& [00:17:30] B artists and stuff, that you listen to.
[00:17:32] Rachel: That's who there is mimicking at that point, isn't there? You [00:17:35] mimic that person or, you know, when I grew up in church with people like Misha Paris and stuff like that. So you're listening [00:17:40] to a style of vibrato, a style of R& B singing. So yeah, [00:17:45] that was a steep learning curve. And again, I've always just surrounded myself by people that are [00:17:50] smarter than me.
[00:17:50] Rachel: So I was like, actually, what should I do? And then someone said, you should get someone. To work [00:17:55] with you vocally, you know, start taking some sort of vocal classes and different people were [00:18:00] suggested, why don't you try working with this person and they can help with your voice. [00:18:05] And so that's how I started to learn about it to go, I can't, [00:18:10] um, struggle with this.
[00:18:11] Rachel: There's always people out there. Again, I think the secretary brain, there's always someone who [00:18:15] knows more. So why don't I just reach out and ask for help and support? [00:18:20] And it kind of, yeah, kind
[00:18:22] Claire: of works. I mean, it sounds like you're very [00:18:25] Well, I know this from working with you anyway, you are so in touch with your curiosity [00:18:30] and a willingness to take on more, [00:18:35] learn more, go deeper into it.
[00:18:38] Claire: It sounds like that [00:18:40] attitude helped you survive what other people might have found really uncomfortable. Actually, it sounds like that was [00:18:45] a protective factor.
[00:18:46] Rachel: I like that you said curiosity, cause I just think I'm nosy, but you're [00:18:50] so kind to me. Yeah, but curiosity is really [00:18:55] cool cause I think. I think you have to keep that because that just keeps you bubbling and keeps [00:19:00] you alive and keeps you growing so you don't end up stagnant in whatever that is, whether it's a role [00:19:05] or you just want to keep moving forward and keep bringing life to it.
[00:19:09] Rachel: So [00:19:10] curiosity, I'll take that. So anyone who said I'm nosy, I'm actually just curious. [00:19:15] Claire said it and Claire knows what she's talking about. So yeah, curiosity. Yeah. [00:19:20] I yeah. It was very interesting. Musical theatre was very [00:19:25] interesting, like, from secretary to musical theatre was very It was different kind [00:19:30] of teamwork and I was like, Oh, this is how, this is how this works.
[00:19:33] Rachel: And there's eight of these a [00:19:35] week. And I think I learned a lot about just taking the rest when I needed it. [00:19:40] Um, so I think the first few years it was quite boring because people are like, Oh, show's finished. Let's go [00:19:45] out. I'm like, I think I'm tight. I think I'm just going to go out because I used to go to bed [00:19:50] about half night.
[00:19:50] Rachel: So, you know, I'm back to that now, um, going to bed at [00:19:55] half nine and kind of preparing your week and jumping on the tube and planning your life [00:20:00] in a way that made sense and having a whole weekend, having two days off, [00:20:05] which just didn't exist anymore. So I think I just try to listen to my body as much [00:20:10] as I could and go, I think you need to not go out tonight and maybe just [00:20:15] rest a little bit.
[00:20:16] Rachel: Um, Yeah, and just thinking about what I was eating and [00:20:20] drinking and stuff like that, it's like, oh, this is this doesn't agree I can't eat a whole bar of [00:20:25] dairy milk before I try and sing Rafiki. Do you know what I mean? [00:20:30] Whatever that is and people's different people's bodies react differently, but I was like this makes me feel [00:20:35] claggy and weird and I think that's a no but I took those [00:20:40] risks though.
[00:20:40] Rachel: I would eat stuff. Sorry, this is probably not the right thing to say, but people just [00:20:45] can't, you can't eat that, you can't have dairy, you can't have blah, blah. And I thought, well, I'm just, I'm [00:20:50] gonna try it and see what works with my body. What is fueling my body for these things? And, you know, a lot [00:20:55] of times people were right.
[00:20:56] Rachel: So I should have [00:21:00] listened. Did you
[00:21:01] Claire: feel well met by the other people? [00:21:05] In the cast, perhaps who were more experienced with their, were they welcoming?
[00:21:09] Rachel: [00:21:10] Yeah, actually with Lion King, definitely. So I think because Lion King such a [00:21:15] mix of people who are very experienced and have no experience at all. I think [00:21:20] because Lion King kind of welcomes that you have a mix of ages and experience.
[00:21:24] Rachel: So it [00:21:25] becomes this family. Really, really quickly, um, and I remember [00:21:30] on day one, the first person I met was Alexia Kadeem. That's the first person I met on day one, um, [00:21:35] and she just, she'd left and come back as Nala, and I met her on day one sort of thing going, [00:21:40] Oh my gosh, this is the first West End show I've done, and I'm a swing, and I had no [00:21:45] agent, because I didn't have an agent for years, because I'd come out of, I didn't know you needed one.[00:21:50]
[00:21:50] Rachel: It's just bizarre. I didn't know you needed one. So I was just negotiating my own contracts and I didn't [00:21:55] know that that's what you needed. So I had a hundred percent of my own. I mean, who knows what they [00:22:00] were paying me, but I, I didn't know you needed all these things. And on day one I met her and [00:22:05] she was kind of like, you know, welcome.
[00:22:07] Rachel: This is brilliant. She's like, do you have an accountant? Do you [00:22:10] have an eight? So those questions straight away, do you know? I was like, Oh, do I need an accountant? Yes, you do. [00:22:15] Um, and you know, this is the way the show works. It's the way the schedule works. And so it, you [00:22:20] know, it was family straight away, but I think they fostered that environment [00:22:25] because so many people come into the show.
[00:22:27] Rachel: were immigrants had like left home and come [00:22:30] specifically to London to do this show from South Africa and Trinidad and [00:22:35] Brazil. And so everyone was kind of like, okay, we've got to hug each other because everyone's missing their [00:22:40] family. Um, but you're in this incredible show. The only way to [00:22:45] get through. I think that for me again was back to that community.
[00:22:49] Rachel: The only way to get through [00:22:50] is to kind of pull together. So people really did welcome me and people I spoke to [00:22:55] on. Day one. I still speak to now, for example, this can be a really funny story. [00:23:00] Um, one of the first little Simba's that I met on the first day that I got there [00:23:05] was Johnny Bishop. Um, and so, do you know what I mean?
[00:23:09] Rachel: All [00:23:10] this connection, I met him on day one and because my family are from Trinidad and he'd first come from [00:23:15] Trinidad, he was 10 and I was kind of like, Oh, he's just. So full of beans and really talented, [00:23:20] quite shy, very quiet, same as Johnny is now. Um, and we met on day [00:23:25] one and it was only, this is fast forwarding, like when we got to Hamilton, I was [00:23:30] kind of like, this is the second time we've worked together, but I've not stopped communicating with you [00:23:35] all these years because that's the family that it can kind
[00:23:38] Oren: of
[00:23:39] Rachel: foster.[00:23:40]
[00:23:40] Rachel: It was very special and it was more, as I say, it was more than the show [00:23:45] because these beautiful people were helping you along because there was, I'm glad I've got an [00:23:50] accountant, I'm telling
[00:23:51] Oren: you,
[00:23:52] Rachel: that is serious. So [00:23:55] yeah, I'm happy for all that help.
[00:23:57] Claire: So Paris then to London to do it in [00:24:00] London and then what happens after that?
[00:24:02] Rachel: Oh my gosh, what happens after that? So I was [00:24:05] in the show as a swing and I was covering Rafiki, [00:24:10] Shenzi. Um, and just stand by and for stuff like Sarabi and stuff like that. So that in [00:24:15] total was about three and a half, four years. Loved it. Bought a little house and just [00:24:20] took my time and kind of bit. I loved being a swing.
[00:24:22] Rachel: I cannot tell you how much I enjoyed being a swing. [00:24:25] Um, just coming on, joining, doing a little thing. Tell
[00:24:28] Claire: us a bit. I don't think we've had [00:24:30] anybody talk about being a swing.
[00:24:33] Oren: I, I totally [00:24:35] get that on instinct, just because of what you said about your background. Yes. You would just jump [00:24:40] into a song here or a song there in church.
[00:24:41] Oren: So yeah, let's dive into that.
[00:24:43] Rachel: Yes. Swinging was, [00:24:45] first of all, um, you know, thank God for the internet now. Cause if at that point I'd had the internet [00:24:50] and I could have gone, what is a swing? Cause again, I had no agent. No agent. So they're like, you're coming in as [00:24:55] a swing with some covers. And I was like, Earth is a swing.
[00:24:58] Rachel: So I was just thinking, well, [00:25:00] maybe it's like a pendulum swing, like you do a bit of this there and then a bit of that there. [00:25:05] Um, but when I got in and realized, okay, so you cover these four [00:25:10] women vocally. Okay, so that I was like, right, I can map this. I was just, I mean, [00:25:15] sorry for the trees, but it's just tons of paper because you created your quote unquote Bible of [00:25:20] Each woman, where she moved and what she sang.
[00:25:22] Rachel: And I just really enjoyed it because [00:25:25] harmonies again, like my thing. I was like, I can do this. I'd love a harmony. Yes. [00:25:30] Um, and then you are working with other swings again, that are more experienced [00:25:35] going, you need to be here. Do you know your backstage track? Are you aware of where you should be before you go [00:25:40] on stage?
[00:25:40] Rachel: Cause your backstage track is far more important than your on stage track. That's where you [00:25:45] can map, where can I put bottles of water? When can I use the toilet? When can I reference my book again [00:25:50] to go, this is the scene that was weird last night. Like, is it this or is it, should I go that way or [00:25:55] that?
[00:25:55] Rachel: Okay, cool. Is this a quick change? Is this not? So swing life, I think cause I started [00:26:00] at the harder end of theater with swinging and covering, um, this part now of my [00:26:05] career can enjoy a lot more. Because you're overprepared, like, Swing Life, I'm [00:26:10] telling you, if I knew it was that hard, I probably at that point would have gone, No, I'm not, I'm not, I'm [00:26:15] not cut out for this.
[00:26:16] Rachel: Because sometimes you're split tracking, like you go on and start as one [00:26:20] person, they go, Oh, no, Shenzi's gone off. And you're like, Wait, I mean, I'm in this flow. Like, what do I do [00:26:25] now? So I think because I started that that harder end. I think swings are so [00:26:30] undervalued and so underpaid,
[00:26:30] Claire: I don't want
[00:26:31] Rachel: to moan.
[00:26:32] Claire: Oh, I mean, I'm with you. [00:26:35] It boggles my mind what swings do. Yes. It boggles my mind. I don't know [00:26:40] how it's possible for a brain to take in that detail. Also, [00:26:45] in a, you know. Let's be honest here. I have difficulty following [00:26:50] an exercise class and mirroring it from here, like sitting and watching [00:26:55] rehearsal and then translating that into being on the stage in those [00:27:00] places.
[00:27:01] Claire: That boggles my mind. Just, just that alone, even if it was just one part. [00:27:05]
[00:27:05] Rachel: Yeah. And I feel like now, even when I go into shows and talk to other swings, like younger [00:27:10] people that are coming up and, and starting, I always say to them, like, we just [00:27:15] had pieces of paper. We didn't have video phones. We couldn't record a show and [00:27:20] watch it.
[00:27:20] Rachel: So if you have these resources, take them, like you have it. You can actually [00:27:25] just go up to someone and just go, can you plonk this for me? Can you, we didn't have that. Just [00:27:30] learn this track and keep practicing every single day. How does that fit in and [00:27:35] clashing chords and all these things that you're like.
[00:27:37] Rachel: Oh my goodness. I don't know how my body's [00:27:40] going to do it. But again, the failing forward, you know, getting it wrong means, and that's [00:27:45] so vulnerable. It's so vulnerable when you have a show. And as you know, a show is a [00:27:50] moving, living thing. So no matter what you craft two, three weeks in, [00:27:55] it's slightly shifted a bit or slightly moved a little bit.
[00:27:58] Rachel: And you come in as a sweet and go in, [00:28:00] Oh, you should all be here and they're like, Oh, don't dictate to us because we've got our, we've [00:28:05] got, we've got, you're joining the thing. So. It's being that [00:28:10] malleable as well and going, okay, this is all right. I can settle into this a little [00:28:15] bit because this is the show now.
[00:28:16] Rachel: It has moved a little bit. Um, but I say [00:28:20] now to swings, if you, every resource you have, whatever you have, you use that and [00:28:25] it's, you are going to get it wrong. I think let's just normalize it will not be a perfect [00:28:30] show and you will get stuff a little bit wrong a little bit out, you know, even when you're [00:28:35] covering a line will be the other way around or not all because your brain is required to do so many things and you're [00:28:40] pushing past anxiety or fatigue or, you know, let's just do this quick dress run in the day and [00:28:45] then you're going on in the evening.
[00:28:46] Rachel: It requires so much of you. Um, I [00:28:50] salute. Swings and dance captains on stage, dance captains on stage is [00:28:55] it's crazy to be in the picture, but you can't just sit out and watch it. So [00:29:00] I'm glad I started at the more difficult end of what fear can be because [00:29:05] it just, it was so, so tricky, but so rewarding when it's [00:29:10] right.
[00:29:10] Rachel: Well, it's good. It's rewarding. Um, they just need more [00:29:15] money and more time and a lot more support. And, uh, yeah, from, from the [00:29:20] cast as well, because what they're doing is really hard and you can feel quite lonely. It can be quite a lonely road [00:29:25] because you're not in the team all the time. Um, so I learned a lot of that along the way.
[00:29:29] Rachel: So [00:29:30] now when I'm in shows, I try to share my pearls wisdom and go, you're going to be all right. It's going to, some days are going [00:29:35] to feel. Not brilliant, but you did it. You got out there, you faced another day. File and [00:29:40] delete and go on to the next show because you can, you, at least with us, we have the opportunity to go back [00:29:45] out again.
[00:29:45] Claire: Yes.
[00:29:46] Rachel: Yeah. So. That's my salute to swings and [00:29:50] covers all over the world.
[00:29:54] Oren: I [00:29:55] do not have the constitution to be a swing.
[00:29:59] Rachel: Especially when there's [00:30:00] loads of props and you're responsible. It does sound
[00:30:03] Claire: like the living embodiment of many [00:30:05] people's. You know, night before the show Nightmare, I'm, I'm on [00:30:10] stage and I don't know what's happening next. I don't. Should I be doing that? Should I?
[00:30:13] Claire: It just does sound [00:30:15] like a living nightmare. But I'm sure that's very exhilarating. I got [00:30:20] some very good advice once from a
[00:30:23] Rachel: really, really [00:30:25] seasoned actor who said, um, you're not doing a show. You're [00:30:30] doing one scene at a time. I was like, what? I was thinking, what's he talking about? I was like, [00:30:35] yeah, but I need to think about this thing in Act 2.
[00:30:37] Rachel: And he's like, you've not got through Act 1, Scene [00:30:40] 1. Just breathe into Act 1, Scene 1. Come off, read, look, look at something. [00:30:45] Now I can go back on. He said, just it's scene by scene. It's not a whole show. Cause if you think about the whole [00:30:50] thing. You will make mistakes that you'd never made before because you're, [00:30:55] you're overwhelming yourself.
[00:30:57] Rachel: So he said, just do yourself a bit of justice, just [00:31:00] go one scene at a time. And I've never forgotten that from, from right from the first, [00:31:05] the first day of Lion King. He's like, you're just doing one scene at a time. That's [00:31:10] it. He's like, and there's no problem bringing down your score and there's no problem having [00:31:15] your scenes in the week.
[00:31:15] Rachel: There's no problem with it at all. And even with Memphis, I remember being thrown on [00:31:20] at some point. Um, and I asked my dresser, I was like, do you mind just keeping them scenes in your [00:31:25] little pinnafore? And I just like, just rip the scenes out. And I was like, can you just pop them in there? And she's like, I [00:31:30] said, yeah, because.
[00:31:31] Rachel: I'm going to have a quick change, but I can, I can actually just reference it. There's two [00:31:35] words I don't know which way round because it's not, I don't think that's [00:31:40] failure at all. And again, I really want to shout out all of our backstage group, everybody [00:31:45] who facilitates the show because everyone's part of the show.
[00:31:48] Rachel: If you don't have beautiful [00:31:50] and supportive dresses as well going, you're caught, I can mop your bra here, I can [00:31:55] figure that out for you there. Do you want me to put your lines here? We're all one team. Trying to make things [00:32:00] work. So I'm shouting out everybody because that's how shows work. They work with us [00:32:05] being, um, gracious to one another and helping to serve [00:32:10] one another because everyone wants to make one brilliant show.
[00:32:11] Rachel: That's all we all want to do. Everybody wants that. Whether you're [00:32:15] seen or not seen. So I'm very grateful to all the dressers you've carried [00:32:20] around. Lip balm and water and throat sweets, you don't even know if they work, and bits [00:32:25] of seed, you don't know, your mouth is so dry, you're just trying to do anything [00:32:30] with the anxiety, but I'm very grateful to them because they have shaped and crafted the characters [00:32:35] that you are then enabled to go out and do.
[00:32:38] Claire: We are fully on board with that on [00:32:40] this show. We want to see, we want to talk to everybody from every side of it. Yeah, absolutely. It's so
[00:32:44] Oren: important, isn't [00:32:45] it? Because it is a very performance audience facing [00:32:50] industry, if that makes sense. The audience never really truly see what [00:32:55] happens two meters behind that curtain.
[00:32:59] Oren: Like they [00:33:00] literally, that is, that is it. They don't get any insight, and [00:33:05] realistically The people on the stage are what, at most 50 percent of the [00:33:10] production, which isn't to downplay what they're doing, but it is to say that there are so many [00:33:15] other things that go on. So yeah, I think it's so important to shout that out and [00:33:20] to raise awareness.
[00:33:22] Oren: I mean, I
[00:33:22] Rachel: did see a funny little video the other day. I think from a [00:33:25] Shrek tour or something, someone was filming one of their quick changes and I just watched it about five [00:33:30] times because I was so intrigued. I was like, yes, this, we need more of this. [00:33:35] We need to show that it is, you know, wigs and it is [00:33:40] makeup and it is all of those things that make these quick changes that I'm like, it's [00:33:45] 40 seconds long and all, you know, everyone has to be on it.
[00:33:49] Rachel: It is [00:33:50] like Formula One. Yes. It's the exact, changing those tires. [00:33:55] And that's why, again, another amazing actor said to me, you know, anytime [00:34:00] you end up in a quick change in any show, you know, you ask them, you know, am I the earth or am I the [00:34:05] sun? Ask the addresser. What works for them, which do you want me to rotate you?
[00:34:09] Rachel: [00:34:10] Or do you want to rotate me? And I find like a lot of, you know, dresses [00:34:15] really enjoy that because you're, you're saying, well, it's not, you're not putting something on me. Like, how do I [00:34:20] facilitate? Do you want me to, is it easy for me to step into the thing? So I always just take [00:34:25] time. Do dress or tech whenever you've got that and you know your dresser is and you know you've [00:34:30] got a quick change, just have that conversation.
[00:34:32] Rachel: You know, would this work better for you? These buttons are [00:34:35] weird. Can you adjust on that in the show? I just did. I said, look, this thing's going to be quick. [00:34:40] Do it. Should we place these with poppers? That would probably make it better. Are [00:34:45] these clip on earrings or push ins? Do you want me to turn? And she's like, thank you for asking that.
[00:34:49] Rachel: She's like, actually, if you [00:34:50] just stay where you are, I can pull things on you and then you can turn afterwards. So [00:34:55] I think, have those conversations, be really responsible for your own track. Every [00:35:00] show, check where your props are. It's no one else's responsibility. Sorry, this is me being old school. [00:35:05] Check that prop desk.
[00:35:06] Rachel: Are they where they're meant to be? Because that's your pre show check [00:35:10] as well. I'm old school. I think that's what we were taught at Lion King. Like, your, your track [00:35:15] is your responsibility. Um, so you're working with your [00:35:20] stage management team. You're working with them. Because sometimes things can get forgotten or it's in a [00:35:25] pocket.
[00:35:25] Rachel: It didn't come out of the pocket the night before. All of those things, um, I think [00:35:30] help us work together and make a show better. And then you're one community. It's not, it's not a blame game [00:35:35] thing. It's going, all right, how do we facilitate? How we want this show to run and everyone feels [00:35:40] included and special because like you say a lot of time people don't see What's happening just there [00:35:45] in the wing sometimes.
[00:35:47] Rachel: I'm grateful. They don't [00:35:50] In the way people try to distract you whether it do we work it out? [00:35:55] Yeah, it's a it is a community thing I think we're coming back to the same thing really [00:36:00] community
[00:36:01] Oren: This episode is sponsored by Vocality, a specially [00:36:05] formulated blend of tea for professional voice users. Each ingredient has been carefully selected to help [00:36:10] you soothe and take care of your voice.
[00:36:11] Oren: Vocality is naturally caffeine free, suitable for [00:36:15] vegans, and does not contain any artificial flavors or colors. Vocality is the secret to vocal [00:36:20] clarity in a cup. With hugely valuable insight, [00:36:25] Of, I actually, we haven't really had this insight before as to, you know, [00:36:30] we've had, What's your warm up routine?
[00:36:32] Oren: What's your technique? What's it like? But we haven't, what do you [00:36:35] do when you're stood there and you need to change what you're wearing? And I think this, [00:36:40] what, everything you've just said is so amazing and genius to [00:36:45] ask the question about who rotates who. Yeah. Absolutely. Like, that's a game [00:36:50] changer for me.
[00:36:50] Oren: And I don't, I'm not even performing anymore. But just, it's just [00:36:55] things that you're like, you don't really think about.
[00:36:57] Claire: That's a really small example of what I think [00:37:00] we're trying to do more and more in general as a society, [00:37:05] which is, I work this way, how do you work? Right. Yes. How can we [00:37:10] make that happen together?
[00:37:11] Claire: Rather than, I work this way, and you have to work my way, and why [00:37:15] don't you work my way, and that's really frustrating, you're sacked.[00:37:20] [00:37:25]
[00:37:27] Claire: But just being able to say, how does this work for you? How [00:37:30] can we come together and find a way that, cause we work really differently from [00:37:35] one another. Okay. But we still are working towards the same goal as you're talking about. It's [00:37:40] really crucial.
[00:37:40] Rachel: And I think being gracious because we don't know people's show history.
[00:37:43] Rachel: This is another completely [00:37:45] different story. We don't know whether, you know, I'm coming into this show, I've not had [00:37:50] the brightest or best experience before with being dressed or, or the dresser's not [00:37:55] had the best time with dressing a particular actor or artist. So I think when you start from that [00:38:00] clean slate and go, actually, the goal is the same.
[00:38:03] Rachel: We just want the show to go well, [00:38:05] smoothly. I want to look brilliant if, you know, if there's any way to [00:38:10] eliminate any stress and then we just know. So we know in a week where there are nine shows or [00:38:15] however many shows there are, people are a bit tired, tech, dress, all of these crazy things [00:38:20] because we're in a system.
[00:38:22] Rachel: We know the function of how this change works. We [00:38:25] can actually just enjoy ourselves now. We're not fighting each other or what is that? So [00:38:30] yeah, I'm the person, curiosity. I like to ask all these questions like, does that work for [00:38:35] you? Like, should we try that? Or actually we tried that last night and it went a bit wrong.
[00:38:38] Rachel: And then be gracious. You [00:38:40] know, the first few shows are not the show yet. They're not going to work. It does. [00:38:45] Just throw that out. It won't work. You'll be like, oh, is it to where I cross under the [00:38:50] stage and come out or do there's so many things to work out to just be gracious that [00:38:55] it will come in time. And then there'll be that show where you go, cause I made, Oh, that was seamless.
[00:38:59] Rachel: Like [00:39:00] that made sense. To me, but I think communication is key and [00:39:05] just be responsible for your track and enjoy whatever that is, [00:39:10] because when you're responsible for a prop, there's so many horror stories about [00:39:15] forgetting props, not having a prop. And you think to yourself, Oh, if I had just checked [00:39:20] when I went down for warmup, if I'd have just checked that, or if I'd have just gone down.
[00:39:23] Rachel: before beginners. [00:39:25] Um, I've been early. I could have just had a little look and we [00:39:30] end up with a nice, a nice show report rather than, [00:39:35] rather than being flagged in show reports for other things. Whoopsie daisy. [00:39:40] Um, but yeah, I think, I think that's. That's the key. I think it's the community and, and then [00:39:45] people have, I think people really enjoy the job then because everyone's doing what they want [00:39:50] to do and making it work.
[00:39:52] Rachel: But I think the onus is on us to go, all right, how [00:39:55] can we make this flow and how can we like enable our community more? Because we are a [00:40:00] community for whatever protracted amount of time that is, be it six weeks or a [00:40:05] year. This is my community now. How do we make that work? [00:40:10] Oh, yeah, that's, that's kind of how I feel in my years of doing this now, I'm like, this could be [00:40:15] easy, and I was saying to you both earlier, this should be fun, it should be a release, um, [00:40:20] and we should enjoy ourselves, but I think those things.
[00:40:23] Rachel: Help to take the stress out of it a little [00:40:25] bit more and just give you a bit more ownership so when the fatigue or the [00:40:30] anxiety the It's a job today comes in you're in control. [00:40:35] I think a bit more
[00:40:36] Oren: you've mentioned a couple of times So we've done this in previous [00:40:40] episodes your track. It's a term that we've heard But we've never actually [00:40:45] explained it to anybody[00:40:50]
[00:40:51] Oren: Explain from your perspective, what's, what's your track?
[00:40:54] Rachel: [00:40:55] Yeah, so my track is Basically, I think the most simplest way is the track is, [00:41:00] what do I do? What does Rachel do as, as actor, as human from the start of [00:41:05] the show to the end? How does that flow? That is my track. I'm responsible for [00:41:10] when do I turn up on stage?
[00:41:11] Rachel: What do I sing? What do I wear? What do I eat? If there's food in a [00:41:15] show. Um, so that's my track and I'm just responsible for that. Obviously, if you're a [00:41:20] swing, you're responsible for multiple tracks. Um, I suppose even, [00:41:25] I wonder if it came from the way that you layer music, because you know you layer music and tracks, maybe it's that.
[00:41:29] Rachel: Um, [00:41:30] but that's, that's basically what it is. What do I do from the start to the finish of a [00:41:35] show?
[00:41:35] Claire: So when do you make the move from [00:41:40] swing to having your own? Oh,
[00:41:43] Rachel: so I finished [00:41:45] with, um, Lion King at the Lyceum. And again, Pippa rang. [00:41:50] Hello, dear. It's Pippa. Hello, Pippa. How are you? Um, still no agent. Still no [00:41:55] agent.
[00:41:55] Rachel: Still no agent. Four years, four years later, still no agent. [00:42:00] Still haven't got an agent. Um, and she said, Oh, we, um, we're [00:42:05] auditioning for the Asian tour of Lion King. It's the first time we've been out. To [00:42:10] Asia, uh, we're going to Taiwan and would you like to audition for it? There's a role for Shenzi, would you [00:42:15] like to audition?
[00:42:16] Rachel: I thought, oh, maybe, maybe I could. Do that. [00:42:20] That would be quite nice. Um, so auditions and didn't hear anything for weeks and weeks and weeks and then got [00:42:25] a phone call to say, yeah, we'd love for you to come out as Shenzi. And that was the shift from [00:42:30] swing to, um, just doing a principle. So it's
[00:42:33] Claire: a real sort of [00:42:35] growing up process in that show.
[00:42:36] Claire: Giant growing up process. Yeah. They're packing
[00:42:39] Rachel: my
[00:42:39] Claire: bags again. [00:42:40]
[00:42:40] Rachel: So pack my bags and go to Paris and then come back to London and then pack my bags and gone off to [00:42:45] Taiwan. Which was just insane. I was like, I'm now on the other side of the world. Wow. [00:42:50] But got an agent, I'd like to say. I love agents. Don't get me wrong.
[00:42:54] Rachel: [00:42:55] I've got the best agent in the world at the moment. Love an agent. But I did get an agent because [00:43:00] again, another friend in the show said to me, You know, it's great that you haven't got an agent when you're [00:43:05] in London, and that's fine, but you're going abroad. You need to make sure someone's sorting out [00:43:10] where you're gonna sleep, what you're gonna eat, how you're gonna fly there, like all of those things, I think it's best to get [00:43:15] an agent now.
[00:43:15] Rachel: And funny enough, my agent was in last night when you were on for Rafiki. [00:43:20] She hasn't stopped talking about you. Do you want to call my agent? And I did, um, called and [00:43:25] before I knew it, I had an offer for a job and an agent like the same week. [00:43:30] So I was like, Oh, I don't know how this, how this works. Um, and my first agent was Janice [00:43:35] Tilsley, who passed away quite a little while ago, but she was just an amazing, [00:43:40] wonderful agent who, uh, sort of said, yes, I saw you.
[00:43:43] Rachel: And, you know, you'd be [00:43:45] great at all these principal roles. If you want to cover it's fine. But she said, it's, you know, you, you have [00:43:50] that there is growing up to do and there was development to do, but I think you'd be really good. And she [00:43:55] supported me and until she passed away, she was a very, very great agent.
[00:43:59] Rachel: So that's how it started. [00:44:00]
[00:44:00] Claire: That's the second time that's happened in your story is somebody else from the [00:44:05] outside saying, I see this, I see you could go here. And, you know, we can all [00:44:10] make our own stories, we can forge our own thing, but just to have that voice from outside saying, I see this in [00:44:15] you. Did that feel like.
[00:44:16] Claire: Real encouragement. Was that confirming something you knew or was that [00:44:20] news this time?
[00:44:21] Rachel: I think it slightly confirms half. I think because I've been on a few times for like [00:44:25] Shenzhen by far was the most spiritually [00:44:30] connected, enthralling, scary thing I'd ever done in my entire life. It was such a, [00:44:35] it's, it's such a unique role.
[00:44:37] Rachel: It's like not compared to anything else. [00:44:40] And I couldn't believe I was getting to do it. And I thought, wow, if I could, Oh, I [00:44:45] probably could do this every night. And I was thinking about it. It was on top of Pride Rock, just like having little Simba in your [00:44:50] hand. Cause you've got these little, sorry, spoiler, you've got your thumbs in this thing and you're making his body move.
[00:44:54] Rachel: And I thought I could [00:44:55] do this, this track every night. I'd like that, I think. And then I I don't. [00:45:00] So don't think about it. Um, but yeah, I think then I knew. [00:45:05] I could, I think I can, but again, I would never, I never thought to [00:45:10] myself that being a principal was the goal. It was never the goal. Um, I think the goal was just to keep doing [00:45:15] well at serving the brief.
[00:45:16] Rachel: What's the brief? Like, have I taken the vibe out? Does this [00:45:20] make sense? Is this authentic? When it came up to, to do a lead role, I was like, [00:45:25] Oh, this is great. But then I moved into a different phase of loneliness. [00:45:30] I don't realize how lonely it was because there's something about being in the [00:45:35] ensemble. You feel like you're kind of in this tribe where it's like, you kind of bounce off each other and all of that.
[00:45:39] Rachel: [00:45:40] And then there's this again, track where sometimes you are alone and you don't encounter [00:45:45] anybody else in the show in that, that village way, in that community way. [00:45:50] So yeah, I got hit by the exhilaration of going, Oh my gosh, I'm playing Gen Z. And then going. [00:45:55] Oh, they're all over there having fun in scenes and it's a show I'd just done.
[00:45:59] Rachel: So I [00:46:00] knew the laugh they were having there and the laugh they're having backstage and the jokes that were coming. And I thought, [00:46:05] I'm not part of that anymore. This is really diff. I didn't expect to feel [00:46:10] like that. So a different type of loneliness and a different type of pressure started [00:46:15] of, it has to be exactly the same.
[00:46:18] Rachel: And because then you get. [00:46:20] The creatives from America now come in and giving you notes on a completely different level. So [00:46:25] I think I wasn't quite prepared for that, but I just, again, kept [00:46:30] leaning on past shenzis and past principles and going, How does this work? Like, is it [00:46:35] always this lonely? And is it always this hard?
[00:46:37] Rachel: And what do you do when you get a lot of notes that [00:46:40] kind of That person said that, but then the other person from the creative team said, do something completely [00:46:45] different, like, how does that work? I'm thankful I've had the opportunity, even to this day, to [00:46:50] ring people, um, that can counsel and nurture and [00:46:55] mentor you and champion you.
[00:46:56] Rachel: Um, because even though the track felt lonely, I wasn't [00:47:00] alone because I could ring other people that had done it. So I didn't expect that. I didn't expect to [00:47:05] feel lonely like that. That was weird.
[00:47:07] Claire: And on the other side of the world at the same time. [00:47:10] Yeah.
[00:47:10] Rachel: Presumably accentuated that. In a different time zone.
[00:47:12] Rachel: It was like, this is weird. And it was boiling [00:47:15] as well. It was like, this is all so strange. A different audience as well. Because we'd been used to this [00:47:20] really like, clapping, vibrant audience. It's Disney. Right. And then we got into this [00:47:25] culture where. Not clapping is respectful. So it just gets to the end of these [00:47:30] big numbers, like, just can't wait to be king, and it's silence.
[00:47:32] Rachel: A whole auditorium is just silent. You're like, [00:47:35] yeah, I don't know if this is working. So it was a lot of different feelings and things happening. [00:47:40] But again, I, I can only credit it to people being, being able to reach out to [00:47:45] people and have them support you. Because you can't, you can't do it alone. Cause it's, [00:47:50] yeah, it can be very like, Oh, I'm by myself.
[00:47:53] Rachel: Why am I by myself? I want to be up there [00:47:55] having a laugh with no pressure with them lot.
[00:47:56] Claire: Yeah.
[00:47:57] Rachel: You know? Yeah. That
[00:47:58] Claire: pressure. [00:48:00] Did you learn to hold that safely?
[00:48:04] Rachel: Initially, no, [00:48:05] I'll be honest, a lot of imposter syndrome, that's when it started of going, you haven't [00:48:10] trained. This is why you're getting these notes.
[00:48:11] Rachel: You don't understand. You're trying [00:48:15] to do something that you're actually not equipped to do. You were blagging it, you know, [00:48:20] but then I had to go, how could I have blagged it on the West End for all this time? Like, no, it can't be possible, [00:48:25] but you do fight those voices like backwards and forwards. And I just promised myself [00:48:30] that I wouldn't stop talking about it.
[00:48:32] Rachel: To family or friends and, and [00:48:35] also that I would just make sure I had enough strength to just do the next show, go out there and just [00:48:40] be honest and just be authentic and enjoy the next show because the [00:48:45] pressure, it's just one of those things because again, the higher ups [00:48:50] have a brief they want to fulfill, they want it to be the same all over the world.
[00:48:54] Rachel: And they are going to [00:48:55] give you notes. They are. Some of it, you're just like, what? Can you make it [00:49:00] bigger, but really small? What? Can be really [00:49:05] dynamic, but really quiet. And you're like. I don't even know what to, I don't even know what to do with this. [00:49:10] I'll be honest and sometimes I've gone, yeah, great. Yeah.
[00:49:12] Rachel: Amazing. And just gone out and done the exact same thing [00:49:15] because you get yourself in such knots.
[00:49:16] Oren: I don't even know what they want. And then they'll come back and I'll go, yeah, that
[00:49:19] Rachel: was [00:49:20] great. That was amazing. That was it. So I've just always opted [00:49:25] just like, is it authentic? Does it feel true? Um. I'll just have a go at that.
[00:49:29] Rachel: [00:49:30] So, because you can get the imposter thing of going, I'm getting the same note every [00:49:35] single day. What am I not doing? What am I not doing? But I did [00:49:40] enjoy Taiwan. I did. It taught me a lot. It really taught me a lot. And [00:49:45] I enjoyed it. It was nice because they had physio on. They just sit in the building, so you can get physio [00:49:50] all day, every day.
[00:49:51] Rachel: Um, and someone helping us vocally as well. So that, I think that support [00:49:55] made you go, actually I can enjoy this show.
[00:49:56] Claire: Yeah.
[00:49:57] Rachel: And we had like minimal illness on the show, because people just [00:50:00] cared for and felt, felt really good. Yeah.
[00:50:02] Claire: Yeah. That's really important.
[00:50:04] Rachel: Very [00:50:05] important. It is. You need that.
[00:50:06] Claire: It is. And that's learning how to handle that pressure as [00:50:10] that stayed with you.
[00:50:11] Claire: Do you still have to mindfully look after it, or is it more? [00:50:15] Very mindfully have
[00:50:15] Rachel: to look after it. Because you're just creeping in this really weird way, you're going, [00:50:20] I'm really enjoying this! And then in the middle of a song you can go, Yeah, no, it's not going to come out like that, that's just [00:50:25] going to be weird.
[00:50:26] Rachel: That person's in tonight, or that person's in who played it. Or even [00:50:30] sometimes when you're an alternate. This is just so weird. Even sometimes with [00:50:35] Memphis being an alternate, you're constantly thinking, I've overheard conversations at box office. [00:50:40] This is so bad. I went to box office just to get tickets for my mom to go.
[00:50:44] Rachel: [00:50:45] Oh, it's, you know, Wednesday afternoon and she's in town. She wants to come and watch the show. And I heard [00:50:50] this woman at box office going, well, I've come all the way here and I want to see [00:50:55] Beverly night. All right. This is, I don't want to see some cover. I don't want to say blah, blah, blah. [00:51:00] And you feel that thing like rising up in your tummy.
[00:51:03] Rachel: You're like, Oh. [00:51:05] That's from someone, oof, I don't, ooh, that's not nice. And I'll never [00:51:10] forget the girl on Box Office said, Well, you can have those opinions. And obviously we have [00:51:15] Beverly Knight and we have Rachel John. They're both extraordinary. But, you know, give the show a [00:51:20] chance. Watch it. If you're not enjoying it in an interval, come back out and let me know.
[00:51:23] Rachel: But we have really, really great [00:51:25] performers here. And I think you should just, just enjoy the show and just see. Um, and [00:51:30] even though, yes, I was very happy about that. That actual feeling. did not leave my body during that [00:51:35] show. The tension I felt during that show, because again, it's now this [00:51:40] other opinion from out there.
[00:51:42] Rachel: You're kind of way. I'm good. You've not even watched it. [00:51:45] You know,
[00:51:46] Claire: writing me off just because I'm not called.
[00:51:48] Rachel: Yeah. And then, and then [00:51:50] this weird thing came into my brain. When I was in the middle of something hard in the show, I think I was [00:51:55] singing Coloured Woman, again, which was a great, like, I could just smash this record [00:52:00] and go, you know, whatever.
[00:52:01] Rachel: I could use that, um, as a, as a channel. A [00:52:05] thought came to me when I was in the middle of the song going, well, do you know what? If she's right and you're [00:52:10] rubbish, then she's right. And that's okay. But if you're not, [00:52:15] then she's going to have a completely different experience. So does it actually matter? [00:52:20] Whoa, that is deep.
[00:52:22] Rachel: That's not from me. That's from somewhere else. Because, [00:52:25] and that rationale I've continued to have. That's from 2014. I've gone, do you know what? [00:52:30] Yeah, I might be. You might come in and go, do you know what? You are not my preference, or I actually don't like you. But [00:52:35] that doesn't. I can't absorb that pressure because that's not my fault.
[00:52:39] Rachel: I can't. I [00:52:40] can't. I may not be your preference. You may be absolutely right. But then if I'm not, and you've just [00:52:45] seen a character and you've walked through the character story and not the name of the actor, [00:52:50] then, then well done. We've all fulfilled the brief, but it is, it is hard sometimes to shut [00:52:55] that sound down and to hear the audience talking about you.
[00:52:58] Rachel: And I would also say [00:53:00] that, um, sometimes the. The microphones are still on, so sometimes the audience are talking in [00:53:05] the interval and our tannoys are on and you hear these whole conversations in the interval [00:53:10] going, Oh no, I was like, turn it off. Well, that wasn't very good, was it? I didn't really enjoy that.
[00:53:14] Rachel: [00:53:15] Or equally, I really did enjoy it. But again, it's, it's, um, I can't [00:53:20] be responsible for that. Voices because. There's stuff as an audience member I watch that [00:53:25] go, yeah, I didn't really enjoy that. And that's okay. It's just not to be [00:53:30] unkind and maybe talk a bit quieter at box office because you don't [00:53:35] know who's listening.
[00:53:38] Oren: Whenever I go and see something [00:53:40] now, and if I'm going with somebody, I will not talk about the show in any way until I get home. [00:53:45] Because even if I, you know, we're all entitled to opinions, that's absolutely fine. If I enjoyed something, great. If I [00:53:50] didn't enjoy something, fine. But it's those little, you know, if you're sitting next [00:53:55] to somebody on a chair or, you know, wherever.
[00:53:57] Oren: Things can be overheard. It's a public space. [00:54:00] I think it's so important. You're entitled to those opinions. I think everybody is, and [00:54:05] that is fair enough. Maybe do it in an environment where other people aren't going to [00:54:10] hear that and have that be impacted upon them. So yeah, [00:54:15] we're just a blanket rule now.
[00:54:16] Oren: We will not discuss a show until we're at home. [00:54:20] Which I get, yeah. But equally, so the antithesis of everything you've [00:54:25] just said, I recently encountered somebody on Instagram who will [00:54:30] go to like every single Phantom show, if somebody's on [00:54:35] as cover, if somebody's on as this, if somebody's on as this, she will go to every single show and see [00:54:40] every possible iteration
[00:54:42] Rachel: and it
[00:54:42] Oren: is the most wonderful thing.
[00:54:44] Oren: I
[00:54:44] Rachel: [00:54:45] love that.
[00:54:45] Oren: And I, it's just like, that's how you do theatre. [00:54:50] I think it's so wonderful.
[00:54:51] Rachel: Because I had to keep
[00:54:52] Oren: There are people out there. There
[00:54:53] Rachel: are people out there. And I think I had to [00:54:55] keep telling myself, like, especially when you cover, especially if you're an alternate and all those things, I [00:55:00] had to really say, I don't cover this other actor.
[00:55:03] Rachel: I cover a character. [00:55:05] And I think that distinguishing that, I think is really, really important. [00:55:10] Um. Because equally then I get the opportunity to, and, and the [00:55:15] other actor gets the opportunity to shine that character as authentically as they can and do, and it will [00:55:20] be different, like, we are hired because we have unique traits, we're not the [00:55:25] same, we're trying to fulfill this brief, and I think celebrating how unique that is, whether [00:55:30] someone's named or not, I had to just go, you cover a character.
[00:55:34] Rachel: It's not a [00:55:35] person you, you cover a character and keep breathing into that character because you, you owe it, [00:55:40] you owe it for whatever amount of time you're there. So without the audience, without that [00:55:45] support, I mean, this is, this is what we need. We need people to keep coming and [00:55:50] seeing shows and, you know.
[00:55:52] Rachel: Coming and supporting us. That's what we want. And we love [00:55:55] the audience. I'm not bashing the audience. I just want to say, I just want to say, because I am also an audience [00:56:00] member. Yeah. So I love the audience and I love when they come and see us because, you [00:56:05] know, shows without masks is a Wonderful thing because we all went through the mask [00:56:10] shows and they were very hard because you're just learning to smile with your eyes or we're like, [00:56:15] do they like it?
[00:56:16] Rachel: Do they not? So seeing faces now and hearing people is, it's [00:56:20] beautiful. We never, ever, ever want to go back. This is, this is a lovely [00:56:25] interactive space to be in. It's precious.[00:56:30]
[00:56:31] Oren: We'll get back to the episode in just a minute, but I just wanted to quickly say that [00:56:35] 75 percent of you are not subscribed to this channel, so if you could, hit that [00:56:40] subscribe button, like this video, and ding the bell for notifications so you never miss an episode in the [00:56:45] future.
[00:56:46] Claire: You mentioned lockdown. I, you and I had chats [00:56:50] in lockdown.
[00:56:51] Claire: We did. And I know that you like Thanks. Many others struggled [00:56:55] with that sort of sense of who am I if I'm not doing this? And I'm wondering if [00:57:00] you'd mind talking about that a bit.
[00:57:01] Rachel: No, I don't mind at all. It was really very hard And that's [00:57:05] why I'm so grateful to be able to reach out to you in that time It's like so [00:57:10] much is linked to like now you you we are constantly affirmed [00:57:15] Yes, you got the job.
[00:57:17] Rachel: Yes, you can have this audition. Yes, your self tape was okay. [00:57:20] 55 takes later. So I [00:57:25] think you're, you're so aware of yourself that the nose or the sign, it was so [00:57:30] still, it was so quiet and nobody was saying, could you come and sing this thing or do this thing? I [00:57:35] really, really struggled with it because I just didn't know, who am I if I'm not doing this [00:57:40] thing?
[00:57:40] Rachel: Um, I was, Very happy [00:57:45] to speak to you and also I felt a real peace about being allowed to kind of sit in [00:57:50] it for a minute. I think I was just trying to like, just feel better, like don't acknowledge [00:57:55] the emotions or it's fine. It will all pass because we were all going, it'll be over soon. It'll be over in a month.
[00:57:59] Rachel: It'll be [00:58:00] over and it really wasn't. Um, it really, really wasn't over in a month. Um, and I [00:58:05] think the joy that I got out of that was going, well, you know, [00:58:10] I can't really do anything right now. Um, rang another friend at church and [00:58:15] he was kind of like, cause he gigs a lot. So he drums a lot and he's like, Oh, I just want to play something.
[00:58:19] Rachel: I'm like, we're not. [00:58:20] And he's like, well, the church is empty. Everyone's free. There's no, all [00:58:25] these musicians are doing absolutely nothing. And I was like, well, maybe we should just go down to church and sing something. And that then [00:58:30] turned into let's do some Ibs and do, and then [00:58:35] that kind of turned into let's do an album.
[00:58:37] Rachel: So it was just out of that. What do I [00:58:40] do? I was like, how do I add my voice to this? I still want my voice. Um, And I'm still [00:58:45] valued, even in a space when I'm not singing. I've still can create [00:58:50] something that probably for me felt like the most like honest thing, because it was [00:58:55] just like, Oh, this is where I'm back at home.
[00:58:57] Rachel: I can sing here and no one's judging me [00:59:00] and I can feel like I'm myself again. Because it was, it was, it was [00:59:05] hard, it was really hard and it was, most days were unpleasant. I was like, [00:59:10] I've woken up, I've had a shower, I'm not really sure what for, because there's nowhere to go. No, do [00:59:15] you know what I mean?
[00:59:16] Rachel: There's no appointment, there's no popping out, there's no connecting. [00:59:20] And it was the lack of community and connectivity that I found was quite hard. [00:59:25] Because we didn't have church, we didn't have another community, because I have theatre and I have church, but both [00:59:30] were gone. And I was like, I don't know, I don't know, what do I, what do I do with this?[00:59:35]
[00:59:35] Rachel: Um, so again,
[00:59:36] Claire: I reach out. So interesting that at the beginning of your career, [00:59:40] you come in. As, as a fully fledged person who's, you know, pursuing [00:59:45] being a secretary, PA, whatever. And, Oh, I could do this thing. But [00:59:50] then, you know, nearly 20 years later, that's become the thing that defines you. [00:59:55] So that if that goes away, you think, Oh, what, what part of me is left?
[00:59:59] Claire: And yet you [01:00:00] started with it as an adjunct. I think that speaks a lot to how much you [01:00:05] have grown through theater and grown through your career in terms of it. It's [01:00:10] sort of seeping in. And taking up the whole of you.
[01:00:13] Rachel: Does that make sense? It does make [01:00:15] sense. And I didn't even really stand back and think about it like that, because I think if I hadn't gone to that [01:00:20] audition, and if I hadn't even started, I would have just been, I want to say, the most [01:00:25] incredible English teacher ever.
[01:00:26] Rachel: I would have been great, right? My students would have loved me. [01:00:30] And this would never have even, like singing would just have been a hobby. I'd have probably ended up doing BV [01:00:35] somewhere, or gigging somewhere, and really enjoying the thing. I don't think it would have even I don't [01:00:40] feel like I would have missed something, whereas now I stand in my life going, I've had, [01:00:45] I don't know, the last 20 years, like, so many people I've [01:00:50] met and people that I've, I've travelled, you know, all of these things.
[01:00:54] Rachel: You're right. It [01:00:55] feels like a real life source. But also I get a lot of joy now at this [01:01:00] point just talking to people about theatre or in theatre, like students and [01:01:05] stuff like that. I get real joy from that now because it's like. sharing this information, like what is a trap? [01:01:10] Make sure you know your props, you know, get an accountant.
[01:01:12] Rachel: Those sorts of things now is still part [01:01:15] of, yeah, I feel so rooted in like musical theatre. And I think because it was [01:01:20] healing for me and it, it, it unleashes confidence in me that I just didn't [01:01:25] even know was there. I didn't even know. That's so
[01:01:29] Oren: amazing.
[01:01:29] Claire: [01:01:30] It's incredible. I was just going to pick that up.
[01:01:34] Claire: Your
[01:01:34] Oren: album.
[01:01:34] Rachel: I [01:01:35]
[01:01:35] Claire: did. Do
[01:01:35] Rachel: I do a shameless plug? Yeah. Shameless. Is it not shameless? [01:01:40]
[01:01:41] Oren: Talk about this.
[01:01:42] Rachel: I will talk about this. So during lockdown, [01:01:45] I mean, I'd always said at some point, Oh, I'd love to do an album, but it felt like an out there thing. [01:01:50] Money and. Time, because you're always in a show and you think [01:01:55] I've got to preserve my voice, so I don't really want to like do anything too much, you know, you [01:02:00] really being cautious.
[01:02:01] Rachel: And then again, lockdown came up and I'd always. I talked to my friend, [01:02:05] Steph, and he was like, well, if you could, what do you want to do? And I was like, I'd love to [01:02:10] do, I just want to do hymns, that's what I'd love to do. And we kind of just left [01:02:15] it. And then I ended up talking to Ramin because we'd done Songs for a New World [01:02:20] during lockdown.
[01:02:21] Rachel: Um, and it was on his podcast and he was kind of like, if you could do [01:02:25] anything today, what would it be? And I was like, listen, I do a hymns album. That's what I would do. I would do that. I [01:02:30] do all the hymns because it reminds me of my great gran. It reminds me of my nan who passed away [01:02:35] last year. My mum.
[01:02:36] Rachel: I've grown up with these songs. And also I feel like songs of praise is quintessentially [01:02:40] British. And you think about that on a Sunday, all those things that, you know, and football, love football. [01:02:45] And I used to go to the stadiums and go, these are hymns. Like you lot have just changed the lyrics, but these are hymns.
[01:02:49] Rachel: These are [01:02:50] the same. Guide Me O Thou Great Jehovah is the same tune. So it's like all the songs and football [01:02:55] grounds are hymns. This is crazy. So I put down the phone to Ramin after his podcast [01:03:00] and he rang me back and he was like, I can't stop thinking about what he said. about doing this [01:03:05] album, I think we should just do it.
[01:03:06] Rachel: Sorry, what? I was like, I was like, well, I mean, I [01:03:10] don't have, I said, I'll be really honest with you. I ain't got the time or the money. And he was like, right, put something [01:03:15] together and tell me what you think. So I got back on the phone to Steph going, um, if we needed to do [01:03:20] this, could we? And he was like, yeah, I could.
[01:03:22] Rachel: I've got the guys, everyone's sitting about. We just, we'll [01:03:25] work out a budget, work out what we need to do. And within four weeks, we were like at the [01:03:30] church that my mum first came to when she came here in the seventies. They gave us the [01:03:35] church. Thank you, New Testament Assembly in Tooting. The bishop gave us the church.
[01:03:39] Rachel: [01:03:40] Very, very lovely mates, right? Gave us the church. Romine got some people to film. [01:03:45] Um, three backing singers. No, four? Four? Four backing singers. [01:03:50] They are
[01:03:50] Claire: cracking backing singers. Aren't they though? They
[01:03:52] Rachel: are cracking. Who now sing for like Stormzy and do that. [01:03:55] They do all the things. So I'm just so honoured.
[01:03:56] Rachel: I'm like, I got them. They wanted to do it. They were like, of course we want to do it. I was like, [01:04:00] really? I was like, yeah. It was beautiful because I'd said I want it live. I'm not going in the studio. [01:04:05] I don't care if there's air in it or there's dodgy notes. I'm not bothered. They were like, are you [01:04:10] sure? Yes.
[01:04:11] Rachel: I want to do one take of each. Let's just do it. Cause I want to feel like I'm [01:04:15] at church and I want to feel like that's what I would do. I wouldn't do, I won't record it for [01:04:20] perfection. It isn't about perfection. It's just an exhalation. That's how I always. [01:04:25] So singing at church and say this little friend popped up [01:04:30] and we got all these songs together.
[01:04:31] Rachel: I mean, the list went from probably about 40 hymns to [01:04:35] nine ish, but I've thrown in a few others and then we just wanted to [01:04:40] like, yeah, we wanted to do little things. I've done how great thou art as a jazz version. I just wanted to. [01:04:45] put it on its head. And
[01:04:47] Claire: I love that. I love how many different, we were just [01:04:50] saying this morning, there's so many different genres in there.
[01:04:52] Claire: It's delightful. It's absolutely
[01:04:54] Rachel: delightful. [01:04:55] You know, and then I, you know, I'm a massive fan of Dolly Parton. So I was just like, we could country it up a [01:05:00] little bit as well. Do you know what I mean? I found a thread, we can country it a bit. And we just [01:05:05] did what we wanted because no one said you can't. And then it sat on a computer for a year.[01:05:10]
[01:05:10] Rachel: Ramin was like, he was going away and we were doing different things. And then, um, [01:05:15] he played it to a friend, uh, Neil at Westway Records. And then they were like, we [01:05:20] really want to, we want to do this. So they got behind it. And that was that. And then, and then, oh, [01:05:25] it all got a bit strange when I got a phone call saying.
[01:05:27] Rachel: Dionne Warwick's had it, [01:05:30] and would like you to support her, be a supported artist at her tour. What? I was like, [01:05:35] you know, in China Act Cool, I was like, the Dionne Warwick. You get the best phone [01:05:40] calls. I really do, innit? I do. And it was bizarre, because [01:05:45] again, I said, well, what does she want me to sing? Because it's gospel, and it's very different [01:05:50] from What she's doing.
[01:05:50] Rachel: I know she's in a soul space, but is it? Oh, no, no. She wants these songs. And she was [01:05:55] very specific. She wanted Blessed Assurance, which was the single we released. And she wanted How Great Thou Art. She wants those [01:06:00] two. So anything else? So to come together with this set list. So we [01:06:05] just tried to get it as soulful as possible bit of, you know, Emily's Sunday.
[01:06:09] Rachel: [01:06:10] Um, we just tried to get it soulful and lovely and add the gospel in there. And it was [01:06:15] so interesting for me because this became so much more than the album that [01:06:20] people Again, a support artist, so I knew people getting up, they're walking out, they didn't want it. [01:06:25] It was so funny. People were like, we want to see Dion, we don't want to see her, sort of thing.
[01:06:29] Rachel: [01:06:30] Again, because I had the first, I was on for 20 minutes or 30 [01:06:35] minutes and then we had an interval and then Dion came on and did an hour and a half. But the amount of [01:06:40] people in the interval. That came and went. So this was my, this was my grand's [01:06:45] favourite hymn. So I'm not religious, my grand's favourite hymn.
[01:06:48] Rachel: This was my mum's, [01:06:50] this reminded me of my mum. This is what we sang at her funeral. So I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa. So I'd gone [01:06:55] full circle. I'd gone back to the songs that I'd heard my mum singing. Had been [01:07:00] so enriching for me that were now other people had gone, I haven't heard that [01:07:05] song yet. Like, why would you do jazz on it?
[01:07:07] Rachel: And what does that mean? And they're so special. And that's when I [01:07:10] realized how British hymns are. That's what I realized. I was like, well, yeah, they're part of [01:07:15] us and part of. Someone was like, Oh, we used to sing that in assembly. And I was like, bring back [01:07:20] singing in assembly guys. Come on, bring it back because it [01:07:25] opens something up in you.
[01:07:26] Rachel: And these songs were like really nostalgic. So it was lovely that [01:07:30] they then said, you can have a CD. I was like, I'm old school. I want something kind of old.
[01:07:34] Oren: Yeah.
[01:07:34] Rachel: So the [01:07:35] next stage and I was trying to get on vinyl that would make my life divine. Yes. [01:07:40] But I heard it's crazy expensive, so I'm just waiting, so I'm just shamelessly plugging and asking for it on [01:07:45] vinyl.
[01:07:46] Rachel: Um, but yeah. And obviously digitally, people can [01:07:50] do digital things on Spotify But, um, this was very special for me [01:07:55] because it just, I sang what I wanted. I really enjoyed it.
[01:07:58] Claire: I wanted to ask you about that. You [01:08:00] can hear it. I think it's I Will Sing the Wondrous Story.
[01:08:03] Rachel: Yeah, it's right down the end.
[01:08:04] Claire: [01:08:05] That's with no other band or accompaniment or anything.
[01:08:09] Claire: And your [01:08:10] voice, the truthfulness in your voice, the [01:08:15] connection to the words, but without a [01:08:20] character being in between you and them. Yes. I really wanted to ask you about that. [01:08:25] feel it through my ears and I just wondered how that felt and whether you were aware [01:08:30] of that shedding of character or
[01:08:32] Rachel: I just did what you are not [01:08:35] allowed to do in musical theater.
[01:08:36] Rachel: I just closed my eyes and let it happen. And that's the [01:08:40] thing that church kind of affords you because no one goes open your eyes. Is that healthy? Because actually, [01:08:45] who am I singing to and what am I singing about? And I think I just went back to that. That's my [01:08:50] safe space. And I remember even starting in theater and people going, you need to open your eyes and stop seeing with your eyes [01:08:55] closed.
[01:08:55] Rachel: But I developed this safe space because you can just. Sing [01:09:00] one on one, which is why I called the album From My Lips To God's Ear, because it was just, I'm just [01:09:05] singing to you. Like, it doesn't matter. No one else needs to hear it. It's a very intimate thing. So I just closed [01:09:10] my eyes and just went, let the sound be released.
[01:09:12] Rachel: Let it be whatever it [01:09:15] is. You know, and it was right at the end of the day. We started at one o'clock. We finished about half six, seven in [01:09:20] the evening, because all of these sound laws, environmental health. So we had to kind of [01:09:25] really wrap up. So we said, we'll do all of the acoustic ones at the end. Because then their neighbours won't [01:09:30] complain.
[01:09:30] Rachel: Um, I'll just close my eyes. I just I don't even know if the lyrics are right. And [01:09:35] I just thought, but it doesn't matter because I just felt my whole being, [01:09:40] like, it was just unfurled. There was no other way. I just felt like my wings were [01:09:45] open and there was nobody going, you can't. And it just felt like a full extension of my breath.
[01:09:49] Rachel: I just [01:09:50] didn't think, and technically, you know, I'll put it here and where's the soft palate? Are you doing the thing? It [01:09:55] just, that release was just, it just felt effortless for me and it felt [01:10:00] so connected. Because again, a character then Suggests what you're going to do [01:10:05] and you're pacing yourself for a show.
[01:10:06] Rachel: So sometimes the full freedom doesn't feel there because you're like, [01:10:10] this is only song four. This is, this is minute 20 of the show. I need to [01:10:15] still pace myself like a marathon runner, but not, not for this. Just. And I [01:10:20] was like, if the air is in there or the mistakes are in there, then someone will enjoy it.
[01:10:24] Claire: [01:10:25] So I'll enjoy it. It's a wonderful thing to hear you say that, because I [01:10:30] think you seeing it that way, you seeing it as a gift to be able to just, well, I'll [01:10:35] just let it land where it is. And that, that will be sort of the gift to me to, yeah, to, to sing like [01:10:40] that could easily be seen as, Oh my God, I'm going to be so vulnerable in this moment.
[01:10:44] Claire: And, [01:10:45] uh, and yeah, actually let's get in a studio and do a bunch of takes. Like, yeah, I think that's. [01:10:50] I think that's a wonderful thing that you've been able to experience that [01:10:55] acceptance of your own voice and, and just sit [01:11:00] with it, be with it. Yeah. Because we talked about this for years in the room
[01:11:03] Rachel: with you.[01:11:05]
[01:11:05] Rachel: Like, ah, constantly listening, just being in a vocal session with you and [01:11:10] listening, but you're like, no, I'm listening. You just, just not feeling free. And I went [01:11:15] through years of not listening to myself. So all of these things you're doing, you're singing at this thing [01:11:20] and that thing, and they go, Oh, do you want to listen?
[01:11:21] Rachel: But no, just do what you want. I couldn't listen to myself because I [01:11:25] just kept thinking that shouldn't sound as raspy. That should have been more, I [01:11:30] should have. The diction wasn't right there. Blah, blah, blah, blah. Um, and I think definitely the [01:11:35] pandemic gave me that release of going, no, it's, it's actually, it's a [01:11:40] gift and it's not.
[01:11:40] Rachel: And actually when it's just open, it actually doesn't [01:11:45] matter. Do you think it is
[01:11:46] Claire: possible to, to achieve some of that acceptance and freedom with [01:11:50] it within the context of a show? I
[01:11:52] Rachel: think so. I think I'm going to say yes. Yes, [01:11:55] I'm so glad you said that. I think it is. But I think part [01:12:00] of the acceptance is getting back to the enjoyment.
[01:12:04] Rachel: I think aside [01:12:05] from that I started thinking, actually Rach, you've got this gift that actually gives other people [01:12:10] a really lovely feeling. And that's okay. Like, even when you don't think sometimes I've [01:12:15] realized you get to stage door and you think that's the worst show I've ever had in my entire life.
[01:12:18] Rachel: Like just, I'm not coming [01:12:20] back in tomorrow because it was terrible. So I'd felt like I couldn't control the voice and I was anxious and all of [01:12:25] that. And there's always someone that goes, that's the best thing I've ever heard. And you're like, wait, what? [01:12:30] That doesn't make sense. So I went, hold on, wait.
[01:12:33] Rachel: Someone likes [01:12:35] it, even on your day when you're like, that was 55%. That's someone else's a hundred percent. So [01:12:40] I can always. Show up and be honest and be [01:12:45] authentic and let it be open and go, here is my gift. And that's why I keep saying [01:12:50] now I'm serving the audience this gift. I am warm. I have slept. I've done everything [01:12:55] I need to do.
[01:12:56] Rachel: And I would love you to enjoy this, even in the audition room, because I find the audition [01:13:00] room very hard to accept. Cause I'm like, you've given me terrible [01:13:05] acoustics and it's 10 Oh five. Why are you doing this? Why are you doing this to me? [01:13:10] Yeah. And now I just have to go in and go, this is like a really odd blind date.
[01:13:14] Rachel: You might [01:13:15] like me, you might want me back, but I've come with this gift. I'd like to get a second date. I might not. [01:13:20] But here you go, here you go at 10. 05, please want me, but [01:13:25] if you don't, that's okay, because I actually just came with what, what I had. And [01:13:30] if what I have is enough, then that's okay. So I'm not saying I'm all the way there.
[01:13:34] Rachel: I [01:13:35] just, I'm keeping this narrative in my mind. Um, [01:13:40] I am, I am enough, I am enough and it is enough on the day, even if it [01:13:45] isn't technically clean, I'm, I'm still here and, [01:13:50] um, yeah, I deserve to share what I have with the world, like I [01:13:55] say, not every day feels like, but I'm going to keep slow. I'm going to. [01:14:00] Slowly let that drip in and enjoy it because it just, it goes so [01:14:05] quickly and you go, I wish I'd enjoyed that.
[01:14:06] Rachel: I wish I hadn't worried about that one note in [01:14:10] that one song because actually there's enjoyment to be had. So [01:14:15] I'm nearly there, I think, but thank you Claire. That's a beautiful thing
[01:14:18] Claire: to hear and a [01:14:20] beautiful thing for you to share as well. so much for sharing [01:14:25] your story, it's amazing. Well, we're not quite done with you because [01:14:30] we're not quite done because we have two questions that we always ask.
[01:14:33] Claire: Okay. One is we call [01:14:35] the five minute call. What do you do at the five minute call? I [01:14:40] can't say
[01:14:40] Rachel: that
[01:14:43] Claire: because
[01:14:43] Rachel: no one will ever hire me [01:14:45] again.[01:14:50]
[01:14:53] Rachel: I'm normally in a tracksuit with no [01:14:55] makeup on just sitting there. I don't like right at the five minute call. Don't be really serious now at [01:15:00] the five minute call. I should be fully dressed and downstairs, but a lot of the [01:15:05] time I am just on the cusp of, of being ready [01:15:10] and my face is normally bare. And, uh, so I'm very, very sorry.
[01:15:13] Rachel: I do like [01:15:15] to. Have a little prayer before I go downstairs, just to kind of center myself and settle [01:15:20] myself as to make sure the audience are having a lovely time. But on a good day, [01:15:25] I am dressed and ready to have a little prayer and make sure my water's set up and [01:15:30] my tea is set up wherever I need it. Um, I try not to rush downstairs and get in trouble.[01:15:35]
[01:15:35] Rachel: Anyway, we end up in the show report for being late, but yeah, the five, it just comes around so [01:15:40] quickly. That's why. So that's my excuse. The time's wrong. Yes. [01:15:45] The clock's wrong. The clock goes too fast. Yes. Normally a little prayer and then just [01:15:50] glide downstairs casually. Amazing. I try not to be too late.
[01:15:54] Oren: I love it.
[01:15:54] Oren: Sorry, [01:15:55] everyone. Sorry, stage
[01:15:55] Rachel: management. Yep.
[01:15:56] Oren: So we have a second little. [01:16:00] Closing tradition on this podcast. We get the guest [01:16:05] of the previous episode to write a question for the next person and it is completely blind. So [01:16:10] nobody knows what the question is. Um, until this moment. [01:16:15] So your question
[01:16:16] Rachel: Oooh. We should have had drum [01:16:20] roll because I'm like, I've gone all sweaty now.
[01:16:23] Oren: This is [01:16:25] Uh oh. The perfect question for you. Oh!
[01:16:27] Rachel: Oh!
[01:16:28] Oren: Okay. If you could meet your [01:16:30] younger self now, what would you encourage them to not be afraid [01:16:35] of? That's
[01:16:36] Rachel: the best question. Salute to whoever wrote that. [01:16:40] If I could meet my younger self now, what would I say not to be afraid of? [01:16:45] Yeah. Do not be afraid of the [01:16:50] next step.
[01:16:51] Rachel: Don't be afraid. Just, just, just put one foot down. [01:16:55] And it will, it will be okay. It will be okay. Don't be afraid of the next step, because sometimes [01:17:00] it's taking the next step, but you think, can't do the next thing, can't, this is, this is, [01:17:05] this is, it's too much. So I would say, I'd say do it. Take the next [01:17:10] step.
[01:17:10] Rachel: And if you fell forward, you'll get back up. But that's it. I wish someone had told me [01:17:15] that.
[01:17:15] Claire: Yeah.
[01:17:16] Rachel: My
[01:17:17] Claire: mum's gardener is a [01:17:20] wonderful man. And he has always said to me, The hardest part of any journey is the first [01:17:25] step and that stays with me all the time. It's great advice and failing [01:17:30] forward and come carry that on with me as well.
[01:17:31] Claire: That's great. That's really great. Yeah, so, oh, [01:17:35] I've had the loveliest day.
[01:17:36] Rachel: I'm just so grateful. Thank you. My soul is full. Thank you so [01:17:40] much for coming and joining us. Thanks for having me. We really hope you
[01:17:43] Oren: enjoyed this episode of The [01:17:45] 5 Minute Call. Don't forget to hit that subscribe button, like this video, and ring the bell [01:17:50] for notifications.
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[01:17:55] Claire: If you are or have been affected by any of the topics discussed in today's episode, please see the [01:18:00] show notes below for some helpful [01:18:05] resources.