Shan Ako: A Journey of Music, Resilience, and Inspiration

Oren: [00:00:00] Hello and welcome to The 5 Minute Call, the podcast that takes a deep dive into the stories of the people that make theatre happen. Today we're talking to the multi talented Shan Akko, known for her performances as Eponine in Les Mis and as Eliza in the smash hit musical Hamilton. 

Claire: Shan shares her incredible journey from singing at home with her family as a child, to touring in Whitney Houston and Motown tribute shows, to her breakout on X Factor.

Oren: With her passion for encouraging others, Shan opens up about the importance of mental health for performers, what led her to study psychology, and the launch of her book, The Shan Vibe.

Announcer: Members of the company, this is your five minute call. All beginners, please make your way to the stage. This is your five minute call.

Claire: Thank you so much for joining us on the five minute call. We're super excited to have you here. 

Shan: It's so nice to be here and to just sit and just chat [00:01:00] music and singing and journeys. Yeah. Thank you. This is great. 

Oren: Just in itself, right? Absolutely. Let's not record this.

Claire: As a place to start, we'd love to know your story, how you come to be, uh, Eliza in Hamilton at this point, but your general journey into musical theatre. Story of Shan. 

Shan: Yeah, so I definitely come from a musical background, household. I have my mum and especially my dad to thank of, um, introducing us to all types of music from young.

I'd go to school and I'd come back home and we'd practice. Like it was that kind of thing. We get up and do some sort of working out and, and singing and recording ourselves on, on camera. So I had that installed in me and the discipline and the love for it and the, the, um, techniques, you know, learning harmonies from a young age.

So it was definitely installed at home, [00:02:00] my love for music. What kind of 

Claire: music were you singing? 

Shan: Um, soul gospel, reggae, um. A bit of R& B, but yeah, soul gospel reggae was the main. I remember I used to sing a lot of Randy Crawford and Whitney Houston Practicing to Michael Jackson like those sort of things, you know, the some legends in there I remember being at school and loving music Always in the choirs loving the teachers and what how they'd influenced me and stuff and then I went To study at the BRIT school, which wasn't far from where I lived and I studied music I did question at the time when I was applying and just to ever to tick the musical theater box or the music box And I was like, oh, I like singing and dancing I was like not too sure about the acting because I wasn't doing that my previous school And so I was like, let me just stick to music and dad was like, yeah Don't go with the music and you know, you like playing the guitar and you're learning that so I got into the BRIT school Thankfully.

Claire: How old were you? then. 

Shan: I was 14, 14 years old at the Brit. [00:03:00] I went, and I went there until I was 18. And that was amazing. I say, I always recommend and highly speak highly of the Brit school. And it was a great, great time, four years of my life. And then I went on to Middlesex University and studied music business.

Oren: When did you go there? 

Shan: Me and dates, 

Oren: ooh. And when I was 18. I was there, I was there 2011. 

Shan: Wow, okay. Is that right? That might have been a similar time. Which campus? Hendon Hendon campus. Yeah. Yeah. As far as that, yeah. And then we, I did do one year in the other campus. Yeah. The older one. Yeah. Cool. So it'd be wild if you were there at the same time, that would've Wow.

It's 

Oren: possibility. Yeah. Yeah. Wait, how? How old are you? 

Shan: 31 now. 

Oren: Shit, we were there at the same time. 

Shan: I love that. The same age. That's what, what did you study? That's wild. 

Oren: So I studied neuropsychology and music. 

Shan: Wow. And engineering. . 

Oren: Okay. This is why Aaron, my hero. . Yeah. [00:04:00] So I. Frequented the music block though, because my, my dissertation, we did a lot of crossover.

Shan: Okay. 

Oren: So Now that I'm thinking about it, there is a chance that we would have seen each other, which is wild. 

Shan: Wow. That's quite cool. I went, I went to, yeah, Middlesex, studied music business and arts management. I was contemplating whether to go to a vocational college to study like more songwriting or just a music course, but I found that I was doing a lot of little things outside of So that was fueling my experience in being on stage and stuff.

So I was like, let me learn more about backstage and about the, um, the management side of it. And what else would I do within the industry other than singing? Like, cause I just wanted to equip myself a bit more. And cause you just never know. I always think I'm the type of person that thinks. Like, okay, if this doesn't work out, what else can you do?

And [00:05:00] what other things? So, yeah, I was very interested in the management and just, and getting into the, um, arts, um, events management as well. So that was cool, um, and the business in general. Uh, and that was great, a great time at Middlesex. And then I went on to Whilst I was there, I started a job. It was a touring job.

So it was like every weekend my sister was doing it and then they needed another singer and it was a Motown show and We went on like every weekend or every now and again I'd dep in and it was like dressing up as these Motown legends and the wigs and the dresses and sequins and Doing back and vocals and just having a great time So I was doing that finished Middlesex continued to do that and then I got a from someone that left that company He set up his own and another company and they were doing a Whitney show and I was like That would be cool.

So I joined that as a backing vocalist and I understudied [00:06:00] the lead and then that was enough for three years. That was amazing. That was a training ground as well as the Motown one, but they were both hardcore training grounds that, um, equipped me for all the things I was doing. Um, Alongside all of this, I would, I was always into writing and releasing little projects and I was really getting into producing and just creating, which I was encouraged to do from quite young, which is nice.

And so I was, I always had that creative outlet when it was original musical covers. Yeah, the Whitney stuff was great. When I started to lead, I really learned a lot about how to handle singing all the time and, you know, vocal health and just stamina. And. Reign, like stretching my range, learning how to make something your own sort of thing, so.

But it was like a Whitney tribute kind of tour. So it was great to learn from a singer like Whitney, who had been singing her songs from young as well. So that was a great opportunity. Did you go 

Claire: on? You said you covered the role. Did you go on? [00:07:00] Yeah, I covered 

Shan: the role. And then that was the first year. And then the second year, I was actually playing the role as well.

Whitney, Queen of the Night. Um, and that was fun. Wow, that's a big thing to take on. Yeah. How was that? It was amazing. Um, we took, which was a nice thing was that we did the live keys of her songs. So a lot of her live performances were taken down. So it wasn't like, 

Oren: You're nice. 

Shan: You're 

Oren: nice. It was like, 

Shan: kind of, okay, I've got two hours of Whitney.

Let me, you know, it's in a, it's in a key and you mix up the songs fast and slow and, you know, it was, it was well done. And it's still going on to today, actually. Um, so yeah, that, that was an incredible experience. And I went through like, So many different You know, learning how to handle your voice when it's, when you have a cold and illnesses and, and just traveling.

Traveling alone was hard. And just being tired of that, like the, the bit on stage was like the fun bit and that's where I learned, okay, the hard work is behind the scenes. You know, being on stage is the joy [00:08:00] and the outlet that we, we live for and stuff. 

Claire: Because how long were you in each venue 

Shan: for? A day, just a day, that night, yeah, four days a week or three days a week.

So yeah, and then on my days off I'd be songwriting and building that skill or just recovering preparing for the next week. Yeah, it was, it was great. And then. As I, as I had those times off, I was songwriting and preparing my next project that I'd release, um, the next EP. I got to a point in the show, I was like, okay, I feel like I've exercised it all and I want to, you know, grow in another way now and step outside of my comfort zone.

And then the opportunity of X Factor came along. So I decided, okay, this will be cool. You never know how it's going to go. I said, let me leap, take a leap of faith and try. I had these original songs that I'd worked on and I wanted to showcase them. I wanted to. You know get in front of a bigger audience and Just take that leap and I was [00:09:00] prepared to do it and it worked out very well.

I got to the live shows That was amazing. Um, simon cowell as a mentor was great and and just to be in that environment was amazing 

Oren: We try and we try and do a fair amount of like looking up and research and stuff For the guests that we have on and I admit I Somebody has put a compilation together of all of your X Factor performances.

Okay. And watch the whole thing start to play. And it was wonderful. I don't know if you care or read about comments, some people don't. But what I found particularly uplifting about it is that there are still comments that are being made today about your performances, and everything is just so beautiful.

Um. So anyway, just a little small thing to share. I did find that quite quite wonderful. 

Shan: Yeah, that's good. I was very Um, conscious of knowing that my performances would be there forever. Yeah, yeah. I bet, I bet. [00:10:00] So I, every week, I mean, it was a live show, I was like, phew. And even we'd, um, we'd even record them in a recording studio beforehand.

Although it was live, but we were able to record our soundcheck and stuff. And that would go out on iTunes and, like, just the pressure of, like, getting it right there and then. And being happy with that. Which, again, I think these Things equipped me for where I am to today like doing shows every day and making sure you're on it like every day and stuff So yeah, that was a great experience with x factor.

And then I was asked to come in for Hamilton scouted I'd say by the casting directors and I auditioned and then I didn't get Hamilton and I was like, no, and I didn't even know much about Hamilton at the time But I've started to fall in love with it the more I was preparing for the auditions and then that didn't work out so I you know went through the motions of not of receiving a no from a show that you really want to be in and all that you can see yourself in but it just wasn't the right time and then soon after they [00:11:00] and same casting directors came back and Asked if I was around for Les Mis and to audition for Eponine again I wasn't familiar with Les Mis as much as everyone else.

So I did my research and I was like, oh, okay I see what they can see and Auditioned and that went so beautifully and that happened and I got the role of Eponine Cameron Macintosh got me in early to do some ensemble tracks, to just get a feel of the musical theatre, West End lifestyle and being on stage.

And that was such a, again, another rewarding experience, just to be in the ensemble, take a step back and just understand and watch. And then I started the concert as Eponine. And then we, yeah, we did some great things with the CD and the DVD and cinema stuff. I mean, you really hit it at a great 

Oren: moment, didn't 

Shan: you?

It was great. And then again, another opportunity to learn and to, with all the people that were involved and to just make my, make my mark and do it well and [00:12:00] deliver. Very 

Claire: different style of singing to what you'd been doing. How did you find that? 

Shan: I was up for the challenge, always up for something different.

Yeah, I was open to learning. It was a learning. I was like, okay, I'm going to come in as a blank canvas and feed me that I want to learn sort of thing. So it was different. The, you know, when I write my own songs, obviously I sing my own accent and stuff, but you're so, when you hear a song or when you're singing, you're so used to automatically going, especially with my experience to an American or, I don't know.

I just, I really liked it. I was just like, this is just different. I was just open to it. I remember being in rehearsal for the first day and just being in awe of every single voice was so different, so unique. Hearing those, you know, the ensemble and Les Mis, I was like, wow. And the depth of see people's voices and the characterism, it was just new.

And I was like, wow. Okay. And I can fit here. Okay. You guys accept me in here. Let's try it. And let me see what I can [00:13:00] bring in. The directors and the musical directors were so patient and so nurturing and welcoming from the audition day. I remember feeling that in the room, going into the room and feeling so welcomed and so like at home and comfortable to just deliver.

And I think it's so important with that, whatever you do, which is what I'm continuing to learn. You know, you have to bring your whole self to anything that you do. So I was able to do that and it's nice when someone can give you the space to do that. 

Oren: Yeah. 

Shan: You know, you need that with anything that you do.

Musical theatre, writing, you have to bring yourself to it. And I was able to do that straight away, and also be like an empty cup and everyone was just pouring into it. And then as I filled it up, I was able to pour out every day on stage. So it was beautiful and Then after that finished that was a beautiful time and then Hamilton came got back in touch They must have been like she should be ready now[00:14:00] 

Every time I saw Cameron I was like, I want to be in Hamilton. He was just like don't wait darling your time will come So, yeah, the time came and I auditioned. They, cause, you know, I think they were aware from the last time I auditioned. So they called me in and said, Do you want to have a little sing through?

And I was like, okay. And then they said, we're going to record it. I think it was quite later on in the casting process. So it was quite a quick turnaround, which I'm very thankful for. And I really prepared well, like well and hard for that. I remember me and my manager props to her because she was really, she's quite hands on and she's like, do you want to do a Zoom call practice?

And, you know, just hearing me out and they're every step of the way with me, which is again, having the community so important, having your support and listening ear, so important. Has she been 

Claire: with you a long time? 

Shan: Yeah, she's been with me through the expected process. I, I signed with her when I was, In the Whitney show.

Right. So yeah. So just before I expect her, um Yeah, [00:15:00] and then through the hard work and, you know, belief and delivery, I, you know, was able to get the role of Eliza, and here we are. We have a few months left, and we're about to say goodbye to the role, and start another, and take another leap of faith. See ya.

Claire: Yeah. 

Oren: Wow. There is so much to rewind over. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was like a skating version, wasn't it? It's great. It's great. I 

Claire: mean, I kind of want to go right back to the beginning of singing at home, singing with your family. Um, was there a purpose to that or was the purpose joy? Was the purpose singing?

What 

Shan: purpose? I'd say my dad was very into music. He wrote his own songs and. He was still writing them at the time and he I think not that he wanted some backing vocals on his track But he was like, you know, you know, you've got these girls here and he was always doing live gigs and it was his world right, it was his world [00:16:00] and we have like videos of when I was like Three or two on stage of him like trying to sing and stuff.

So I think it's in me and it's kind of destined and he heard my sound. He heard my voice and he discovered and heard that there was something there. Um, we found joy in it as well. I loved it. I love the challenge of it. I do like a challenge. Um, and yeah, I think he. He's, he definitely is, is the, the root of that, and he saw the gift that I carry, and he helped me nurture it, and now I'm continuing to nurture it.

So I think that's the purpose, that was the purpose of starting, um, he saw it and, 

Claire: yeah, I think Was it something you could just freely explore, where it went, or did you feel you were honing it in a particular direction? You know, was there a right and a wrong, or was it 

Shan: No, there was no right or wrong. I don't think so.

[00:17:00] I think my dad, with what he knew and the tools he had, he used that and poured it into us. And then he did have a few friends around. We'd go to like a few friends that were vocal coaches and in choirs. And then we started singing in church a little bit. More when I was like a teenager. And yeah. It was, I loved every second.

I have the images in my head of like on our camcorder and just dancing and singing and I'm just practicing over and over like my school outfit I remember it's amazing and these things I do till today if you go on my Instagram I'm still I post videos of me faying and singing and practice is key and I've learned that you know the effects and the what you get from practicing and practicing well, and you just I mean, if you put time into something, it will grow.

Claire: You say practicing well, I think that's a, I recently delivered an entire hour's workshop on practice. I think, [00:18:00] I think we don't ever learn how to practice. People say, go away and practice that. But learning how to practice, what are the elements of your practice? Wow. And everyone's different 

Shan: as 

Claire: well. Yeah, right?

Shan: Yeah. My one, I would say, is Depends on what I'm practicing for. If it's like a song or that I've, that I love, um, I, I pick up my guitar or I get the lyrics and I sing along with it, with it. And then I try and get that, like the melodies and, you know, being able to sing it when I'm reading the lyrics. try and get that quickly over and done with so that I can now find my style and just sing it by myself so that I can find Shan in whatever it is I'm practicing.

Um, it takes, yeah, repetition, a lot of repetition and patience and belief and, um, and then also getting people to listen to you. Having that, [00:19:00] going through those motions of, Oh my God, I'm about to sing this for the first time in front of you, and I'm so nervous and my voice is shaking. So you got to get over that and, um, getting the feedback and recording 

Claire: family you go to for that.

Shan: Yeah. They, they have no choice now. 

Oren: Anyway, we 

Shan: were all singing, um, so, and also if they don't hear it, I record it. And I listen back, because I think, I trust my ear, and I trust in the Lord, in God that he has given me a good ear to know what sounds good. And through my research of like, you know, social media and what, you know, the singers that I've listened to, you hear what's good or what you think is good.

And sometimes it's kind of like, there's a pro and cons of that, because with social media alone, just because you're fed what is popular doesn't mean it's good. But, um, I have an idea of like what I like to hear and, you know, what's, [00:20:00] what makes me feel, feel good and smile and gives me chills. 

Oren: Yeah, it's really great.

It's having that sort of instinctive ability that has been cultivated from such a young age, that you then go and take your own findings and your own research to, I think is really, really special. It's not just, oh yeah, I've got this gift and I've got this and I'm gonna, I'm gonna, you know, carry on with that and it's gonna continue to be this kind of untouchable thing almost, but what you're doing is, I can build on this, I can learn, I can improve, I can share more of this special thing with the world, and I think that is so So wonderful.

It's the perfect student ethos. 

Shan: I love that. I love that. 

Oren: Yeah. We have, I have issues with students at the practice. Oh, okay. You 

Shan: must, you must, um, you must nurture [00:21:00] your gift. Like they're all gifted with, you know, something you have to Just like a plant is not going to grow itself. You've got to water it and take care of it, cut it here and there and take off the bad ones and you have to nurture your gift.

It's so important. 

Oren: Beautifully said. 

Shan: Till this day, you just, there's always more to learn. Yes. When I go to sessions of Claire, I'm learning. 

Oren: Yeah. 

Shan: Like Hamilton has taught me so much about my voice and as a woman as well and as an actor and there's so much to learn. It's amazing. It's amazing. I love it. 

Oren: Do you think that Moving between styles then and tacking on that component of acting as well has given you something more than if you were to just straight up jump, have jumped into musical theatre from the beginning.

Shan: I definitely agree. And I definitely think all the different elements I've had and experiences and. knowledge, musical knowledge has [00:22:00] added to my, to Shan. It's allowed me to become, um, there's, I feel like there's a different with, with, you know, taking on a lead role and having that responsibility, that vocal responsibility and having the stamina.

If I didn't train with the songs that I trained with and the Whitney's and the, and having that responsibility. And knowing how to use certain parts of my voice or my belt or the textures of my voice and, and that add into the emotion. People ask, oh, how are you not breaking down and, you know, how do you sing the song so beautifully?

How are you not breaking down in terms of the saddest, saddest scenes in the show? It's technique and it's knowing, you know, knowing your voice and knowing what textures work well with that part. 

Oren: This is fascinating to me and I kind of want to go into this a bit more about your process of essentially building a character or a piece because it seems like [00:23:00] it's almost Technique based puzzle pieces that you're putting together and testing out as opposed to coming in and Just like fixing on one thing and just keeping it that way and then tweaking it Do you know what I mean?

It feels like you're kind of going into it and like another layer beneath And I'm very curious as to, maybe from a nerdy point of view, but I think that there's something there and I want to 

Claire: Is there another point of view other than the nerdy point of view? I'm not sure there's one. I 

Oren: just, I don't think there should be one.

That's funny. 

Shan: It's really interesting. Yeah, 

Oren: like 

Shan: It has to be that way because you do it every day and there's, you just have to find something new and, and your voice is different. Sometimes, and we go through our, women, we go through our cycles, our voices change a little bit. It gets harder sometimes, you go through the cold seasons.

You know, something may have happened in the show and it's like, [00:24:00] or something may have happened at home and it's affecting you. There's so many ways, and so many different things that happen around your performances. You have to figure out, you know, different things that work on different days. But, um Yeah, I love this.

It's the story. It's the emotion. It's knowing the story and the emotion and then connecting that to different parts of your voice Kind of thing which is really cool because I know that if I, um, I think this is why I love Whitney Houston so much because she showcased a lot of that in her performances and her, in her prime and her vocal performances.

Like when she'd belt, you'd, you'd feel a certain emotion when she'd go really soft and you'd. And then her falsetto is something else, it tells another story. It's not just a vocal thing, it's also your, this is when the acting comes in, like your facial expressions and your body language, all of that comes into play.

It's, it is a layers, it is a little puzzle thing and it's, it can get really interesting. That's, that's what I love about. Having [00:25:00] experienced musical theatre and doing eight shows a week, you discover different things every day and working your way Okay, you check in when you're in your vocal warm up.

Where's my voice at today? And you work out Okay, do I need to lay off a bit more on this higher note a bit more and you know, because it's it You know, it's different and you're using your body so physically throughout the show Sometimes you need to add more pressure and less pressure and knowing how to even the straws and like knowing how that works with your voice has been so interesting.

I loved, loved it. And it's really helped me through the process and, um, it can get, you know, detailed, but also. Remain reminding myself to relax in it and to trust in what I'm doing. I've trained for this You know my body will will know what to do Sometimes I go I have a show and i'm you know Like now i'm like clearing my throat and i'm like oh god, there's like me because I didn't even know that was there Sort of thing.

So [00:26:00] yeah Sometimes you're singing a song and you're like, oh, it's just come up and you just have to know how to, to hold it down or to work through it. These are some skillful things to do on stage. So yeah, I'm very grateful. And I've loved, I love every, every challenge that comes my way and just having the opportunity to.

To, um, have a listening ear from in the audiences. I think, especially now, I'm getting ready to finish the show. I've, I've been, like, performing and like, Oh, these guys are really listening to me right now and I can just, I can perform and I can sing to them and tell this story. It's really nice and especially in a song like Burn, like, they're really there with you.

Yeah. Which is really beautiful and And I know people out there that feel my pain as Eliza and go through similar things and different and the topics of like, you know, losing a son, which is what she goes through, but people are with you on this. So it's [00:27:00] just really nice to have that, the relationship between you and the audience that also helps to just experience and to get your emotions out.

Claire: Do you feel that as a very, um, Live thing. Are you feeling the audience differently every night? 

Shan: Yeah. Yeah, you feel the audience differently every night. It's cool. Sometimes they're quieter, sometimes they're more reactive. And I think either one is so valuable. Like, it's not, oh, they're not reacting today, so forget this audience.

No! Like, they're listening, if anything. Or, do something, what are you going to do to make them listen and engage more? You know, try something. It's nice. I love every audience. It's just, and then Even like receiving their feedback when you see them back after the show is really beautiful and encouraging and sometimes I'll feel like oh, I haven't got I haven't done a good show today because of my voice went here and I forgot this or I was slacking on this but I'll go [00:28:00] after a show and then, um, someone would be like, Oh, that was so touching for me and you really helped me and, you know, and I was like, wow, you know, that happened to me the other day.

Oren: So many people have said exactly the same thing, that they have felt like a show hasn't gone well, but they've gone to stage door after. And somebody has said it was the best thing that they've ever seen, or the most moving thing they've ever seen. 

Shan: That is so beautiful to hear. Yeah. You're like, wow, this is bigger than me, you know?

Yeah. It's bigger than me, and what I've done is enough. 

Claire: Yeah. And I think remembering that you're part of the whole team that tells the story. So you may not have been having your best show, but somebody else might have been. And in any case, your 50 percent show is perfect. Pretty damn amazing. So your audience is imbibing all of that.

Oren: Yeah, 

Claire: they're taking all of that in and that's what they talk about when they come and [00:29:00] say that was incredible. It's the whole story, isn't it? Sometimes backstage, on stage, a lot of performance anxiety is based on, oh god, everybody's looking at me. Yeah, and yeah, they are for the moment you were doing Burn, but then they're looking at Hamilton in a second later and then, you know, it's a team effort, right?

Shan: It's so, such a team effort, and there's just so many life lessons you can get from just that, it's, it's all, it is all a team, and you can't, teamwork, my dad says, teamwork makes the dream work, and I was like, it's true, it does, and backstage, on stage, everyone is so valued, and so needed, and so necessary, including the audience, and especially, as we said, in those moments, it's so rewarding, Especially if you feel discouraged as a performer, which happens, and it's normal, it does happen.

We have to remember, like, we have trained for this, we have, we are, like, there's so much around us that's creating this beautiful piece. And it's, and it, yeah, this is why the show is what it is, or each show is what it is. [00:30:00] 

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Each ingredient has been carefully selected to help you soothe and take care of your voice. Vocality is naturally caffeine free, suitable for vegans, and does not contain any artificial flavors or colors. Vocality is the secret to vocal clarity in a cup. So here's a question then, do you have the same output?

And by output I mean like Not just vocals, but emotion and content, you know, all that kind of stuff to have the same output if you're doing the same piece in a studio versus live on stage, does it differ for you 

Shan: with what I have on the day? I will give if it's a studio, it's different because you might do takes and first take the choruses take and then obviously there's the vocal levels and stuff that might control, but yeah, I always try and put, put in the same, um, and then when it gets to the, when it gets to the live [00:31:00] performance, I may have lived with that song for more, for a longer time, and practiced with it in a different way.

And then you have the audience's, um, energy coming back, so it might be a bit different. 

Oren: Do you, do you imagine an audience if you're in a studio? 

Shan: No. 

Oren: No? 

Shan: No, I just think of the song, what I'm singing, what I'm trying to say, even when I'm on stage. In Hamilton, I don't think of the audience. I think of what I'm trying to tell them.

And yeah, that's all, that's all I can do. I think that's when you're in most control as well, when you're focused more on what you're trying to say and yeah, getting that across. And that's what I'd want. In a studio recording, which I'm going to be doing soon, because I'm finishing a project, a sham project, so I'll be going in the studio soon, and I'm trying to figure out now how am I going to prepare for that, so I'm going to be practicing my guitar parts and singing, and the more I practice, as we mentioned about practice, the better I'll be equipped for the studio [00:32:00] session, and when I'm in that, when I'm in the session and I'll just be recording the vocals, um, yeah, it's just going to be, as long as my voice is recording, There and I'm happy with how my voice is on that day.

I'll just be in the moment and just You know if I however I feel yeah And just again using those little parts of my voice that I think would work well in certain parts of the song So yeah 

Claire: Do you find it you talked before about? Bringing sham to what you're doing. Yes Do you find it easier to do that in one genre than another?

Shan: Yeah, I had to I think I had to search more when it was Eponine when I played in Les Mis, because it was so different, but I loved it. It was like very classical and stuff, but then it had the cottony side of it a little bit because of the character Eponine is. So I had to search for that, but then I was like, I remember I searched, you know, back when I was younger how I used to be, I used to have a little Cotney [00:33:00] accent, I remember, like, all these little songs I used to record with the Cotney accent for some reason, but, um, Yeah, I searched for Shan, I searched a bit more on Eponine, and that was also, you know, just developing my acting skills alongside And I felt like, yeah, my singing's there, but you know, you want to, I had to, I had to build and grow my acting.

And, um, how I did that was like, just understanding the story and relatability and just telling, storytelling, you know, it's all storytelling. And that's why I feel like I've achieved and I've. I've done well with the song free musicals that I've been in because it's storytelling for me and, you know, another level would be to go into a play that would be probably the next thing to really, um, get more into the acting side of stuff.

But yeah, the storytelling has been key for sure. And that's how I've been able [00:34:00] to bring in Sian and bring in, you know, act it out. And, you know, everything about a character is going to be you, and that's absolutely fine. But some sort of relatability is good. And key, I think, even with Eliza, I find there's so much of me that I can learn from in her, and also that I can bring to when I play the character.

So that's been really rewarding. Um, in this time of my life, especially like going through and, you know, finding love and engagement and stuff. And, you know, Eliza does these things. She's young and she goes, goes through it and just adulting and, you know, the topics of. Forgiveness and, you know, you know, fighting for what's right and sisterhood and love that all of these topics in Hamilton have really added.

And I'm experiencing now in life anyway, and as we do anyway, but at just another level, I suppose. But yeah, I hope that answers like, you know, bringing yourself and [00:35:00] it's like, cause it's a balance, isn't it? Somehow. 

Claire: And then you, and then you're having to balance. Thanks. What you're, what's being asked of you by creatives as well.

Yeah. Because what eventually comes out of you, I sometimes think of as, it's like the crockpot into which everybody puts their creativity and asks you to express it for them. How do you find balancing bringing Shan, bringing Eliza? Bringing everybody's vision of Eliza. How is that? 

Shan: It's good. I think it's a collaboration.

If someone, if a director has something to add, I'm like, yes, tell me. I'm like, that's good. I want to know and I want to work on that. Um, reason being is because we want to grow. And when you're, when someone else is watching you, you can't, I can't watch myself. So I'm like, okay, this is good. You're watching.

What did you think? And where can I improve? And. Um, and just again learning about the acting aspect because I didn't go [00:36:00] to drama school to train in in theater necessarily So I'm learning on I've been learning on the job. So I'm like, okay, well, you know, please show me and it's been I've learned a lot about acting and characterization and How I think something is and what I'm doing or what habits I have and then the director's watching and saying oh No, you do you tend to do this and it looks like you know And I'm certain parts in my phone like you're looking like you're giving up.

No, you know, you're not giving up or you know make You can go an extra mile in being joyful and helpless and Let us feel your joy even more and or relax my back into the singing You don't have to you know belt or anything just relax back and that's enough and you know Balancing Shan where oh, I want to do this.

I don't want to add this riff Actually, what about the story and what about how would Eliza, you know Eliza as the woman she is and the characteristics she carries You know, you can take the softer side of [00:37:00] Shan and that is enough For the character and for the bigger picture, like it's not just your show, you know, it's this everyone has their parts to play This is what when I did X Factor as well Which I was, I was conflicted about because, you know, I found that there's so many things about me that I didn't get to show.

Like, you know, I play guitar, I write my own songs. I did sing an original in The Drudge's Houses, which was a great opportunity. But I was like, in the live shows, I wanted to show more and, you know, I like to move, I like to dance. Can I show all of this? But I just found myself in the position of, okay, she's showing her voice and little ballads and these big songs.

And I was just like, Oh, I just want to show more, but this is TV. This is, you know, how they've done their thing. Everyone has their role. And they had their people that did the uptempos and, but it's all for the bigger production in a way. So, but everyone, you know, you can think differently on that one, but similar to theater you have, you know, for the bigger picture, you need to play your part.[00:38:00] 

And that's what comes, that's what makes it so beautiful. If everyone, if you're drawing a painting and this one's trying to go into that part and that one, no, just do your bit and then it's going to come together nicely. So yeah, I, I appreciate the directors and, and the musical directors, the dancers and directors, um, with what they do.

Cause they, they're the eye that we don't, They're the audience and they're the feedback that we don't always get and, yeah, they're doing their thing and, you know, we have to all come together and respect what they're saying and trust what they're saying, so it is, it is a tough one, you know, I've seen that, you know, it can be conflicting because You have your belief on what you should do as a, as an actor with your character, but they're like, oh, try this and I'm seeing this, so you have to collaborate and again, it's a team effort and, like, at least try what they're saying and try it out, discuss it, okay, this is not working for me, okay, can we find a balance in between, and what does, why is it not working, what does it mean to you, why you're doing it this way, so, it takes, um, [00:39:00] You have to have some humility to receive the feedback and to be willing to try something different, which has been enjoyable for me and scary.

I remember my first year, um, Reuben, he's amazing and he's like doing all these amazing things and I was like, oh, I'm just like here I just need to do this one. I just need to do it this way for this moment And then and then I'll be ready to like experiment more. It's been interesting like an interesting journey whereas now I'm like, oh, let me like, you know, try this and try that and Come and then not be nervous about it It can be nerve wracking because you're used to in such a big stage such a big show But you just have to go for it 

Claire: I'm just wondering what the things were that you were looking for, even if subconsciously, because we don't feel ready to play until we've got what feels like a safe environment for us.

I suppose I'm asking what, what made it safe for you? 

Shan: Um, [00:40:00] what made it safe for me to play, play around? I suppose that's such a beautiful question. What made it safe for me? I think it was in me. It was, it's definitely my thought process and my confidence. confidence and How I prepared for each show Onstage and offstage.

I go to the gym and I like to have like, you know fit gym Lifestyle and then I was getting to like weightlifting a little bit and stuff and then I realized after a while Like when I didn't go to the gym, I was like, this is getting easier I was like, okay Shan you need to not be lifting like the weights and stuff and You need to figure out what exercises work for you And your voice, like I was liking the benefits of like physically and I felt like really strong and stuff But I feel like I was starting to restrict in my voice and so then once I started to do and less weightlifting or just use the equipment that [00:41:00] You know that's made for your legs not like you don't have to lift the weights to then do the show, you know Yeah, so just using the right equipment and stuff and that release tension using the facilities that the cast, I mean, that the company provide, which is vocal massages and, you know, you know, releasing the tension off your shoulders and just using, thankfully they provide that, which is really amazing.

So I was able to make use of that and yourself, you know, having vocal coaching sessions and using the straw and like, okay, how do you, how am I warming up? And. You know, what do I need at this moment in time, at this start, at this point of the week. And then, trusting, and I remember Alex Lacklemore, he's done the music of Hamilton and stuff, um, musical director, and he came in and he was like, Oh, you can do alternatives in this song and, you know, especially Helpless and stuff.

And I was like, can I? Like, this whole time? And then I started, then we worked out some different other ways of singing the, Hey, part, and, [00:42:00] um. And I was like, Oh, like, and then I started to do it. And then me and again, me and the musical director, Chris. We sat down and was like, okay, what do you think of this new one and how's it going?

And is this a good plan B if you need it? Can you still approach the plan A? And I was like, do you know what? I can. And I know also that's what the audits are probably used to. It wasn't drastically different, but Um, when you've heard something and you're a fan, like, you know, you're like, So I was like, let me just try going back to it and just seeing how it goes.

And it was absolutely fine. So I don't know, now knowing that, I remember I discussed this with you, knowing that I had that plan B to step back on, that somehow made me really comfortable to just Just sometimes having options, isn't it? 

Oren: Yeah, absolutely. It's just if you've got other options, you don't need to take them.

I 

Claire: think in a lot of these big shows where they're very well known and people have sung along to them at home, there is a sense of, I have to adhere to the plan, I have to adhere to what everybody has heard. [00:43:00] But that doesn't necessarily, that, that was laid down by the first person who sang it, right? They happened to have that little riff in their head and off they went, and now everybody else is trying to, to meet that expectation along the way, and it makes it hard for you to bring Shan.

Shan: Yeah. 

Claire: Because Shan's riff might have been something different. So sort of playing that, working that trade off between, The expectation and actually giving people something that really feels like it works because it works for the performers. Yeah, yeah. Do the characters come with you, do you think? Do you think Eliza will stay with you in some way?

Has Eponine stayed with you? 

Shan: Has Eponine stayed with me? Aww. In some ways I could find her. I feel like 

Claire: Whitney has, the way you talk. Whitney seems to have stayed with you. I 

Shan: think you choose what you want to stay with you. Yeah. And stuff. Um, [00:44:00] I, Eponine, like her resilience will stay with me. I'll take some qualities with me.

Um, like, and Eliza, like a lot of her qualities will stay with me. Yeah, it depends. And if I need to bring them on my next journey. Yeah. 

Oren: Yeah. I guess it's those puzzle pieces again, isn't it? Yeah. If it's a requirement for something later down the line, it's something to, 

Claire: yeah, 

Oren: to draw from. 

Claire: Wow. I know you and I share a real passion for mental health and the mental side of performance.

Where does that 

Shan: come from for you? Again, I stem it back, way back with my dad because he used to, um, we used to sit down and study the Bible and go through scriptures and he used to, like, teach me so much about my faith and, and, um, then he used to send out, like, messages to his friends, like, texts and I think when, that's when WhatsApp started to come about and stuff, or I think it was just texts, but he used to send, you know, [00:45:00] every day that was his thing, like, sending out a message and encouraging people.

And then I remember he said, Oh, you know, when you're ready and you should do that, like encourage your people as, as you study or do your devotions or journal, like share a word of encouragement. And as, as that's minute, that's looks as ministry. Um, so I used to do that and. And then 2020 came, because 2020 came and I was sharing stuff on my Instagram, like, Instagram stories, like, just little messages of encouraging quotes of the day and stuff.

And then, um, I was like, I remember I asked everyone on there, I said, would you prefer me, like, would you like a, if I had a page, would you support it and stuff? And they said, yeah, I want a page. So I was like, okay. So I made, made up the Shanned Vibe page, um. Because, you know, 2020 was a rough time for us all.

We weren't sure what was going to happen. Um, I just wanted to really share that word of encouragement to everyone that was going through things and any, you know, if it could help one person, that was enough. [00:46:00] So, yeah, I wanted to, um, just in any way, I just have a natural yearning to help and to encourage someone.

And I know that it's not just a, you know, you see people's achievements, but you don't know what they're Going through at that moment in time what they've had to do to get there and everyone smiles on Instagram, like, although we see all sorts now, but, you know, it's like a highlight reel on Instagram, so you need to get to the root of things sometimes, and there's, people are calling out for help, so, any little help, I was there to do it, so that's how the ShanVibe page came about, and, and then, I remember I wanted to expand on it.

And stuff, and I came to you, and I was like, Asking you about psychology and, and you saying, Oh, there's one course positive psychology and there's like short courses and there's like bigger courses and, and we had a nice long conversation about it. And I was like, okay. Sort 

Claire: of had a geek out. Didn't we?

Cause [00:47:00] I've been looking at all of those things as well and just kind of 

Shan: positive psychology, like focusing on your strengths and stuff like that. And I was like, and coaching and I was like, okay. This is cool. This seems a bit of like, it sounds like me and naturally I wanted to find something in 2020 because I wasn't sure what was going to happen.

I was like, well, it's again, like when I was at university, what else could I do, you know, alongside what, you know, the singing, if it doesn't work out and stuff, not, I'm not saying I don't believe in my dream of singing and, but in this day and age, we do multiple things as creatives, like, and just, and that's okay.

So, um, yeah, I was, I wanted to, I was, I was on my, I wanted to, um, Look into how I could get into something else and, um, positive psychology looks like a course that I was, you know, would would grow into and, and you've seen right up my street and, um, I wanted to equip myself as I was sharing these, um, [00:48:00] encouragements with everyone on my page.

I wanted to be equipped to take it to the next level. So I was like, okay, master's degree sounds great in that. And I started it and I had to put a pause on it when I, especially when I started Hamilton and I'm hoping to go back to it and to finish it. So we'll see. But, um, it's been. It's been amazing, like, just to grow the brand and, and get into like, psychology and the mental mindfulness of what we do as creatives, as human beings, and just remembering that mindfulness.

Is important in the process of it all. 'cause it's hard and you know, when it gets hard. How do you, what do you do to get by? What do you do to handle when you are nervous? When you're stressed and when life's ing . So life is lifeing. That's lifeing, that's great. What do you do? So, um, as well as my faith, [00:49:00] which I hold dearly to and I share openly online, um, it was important to also just.

you know, understand what we could, what could help us with, you know, whatever's around us, like nature and journaling and the gratitude diaries and um, you know, who's in your circle and stuff. All these little things were so important and I wanted to elaborate and just make people aware and I started coaching people as well in 2020 and it was really nice.

I really felt like I was in my purpose. Again, another purpose that I was fulfilling and helping. Does it 

Claire: feel connected to the performing? 

Shan: Yeah, it does. It feels, there's, there's ways I can connect because I use these tools for myself as well because I go through the motions as a performer, you know, and you're nervous on stage or like, not that I get nervous all the time, but now and again, you know, been off for a week, come [00:50:00] back.

I'm like, Ooh, what am I doing? And as life, you know, as things going to change, as I finished Hamilton, you know, I'm about to take a leap and move country and stuff like that. So it's gonna, yeah, I need to put these practices in, I think. And I have been. And I wanted to encourage other people to put the practice, the mindfulness practices.

And it's so important. There's more that your mental health is so key. Like, like if you, you can't pour from an empty cup. So you have to look after ourselves just as. And we deserve that, we need that in order to help others, in order to perform well, deliver in our workplaces. As much as musical theatre is such a beautiful environment and I've been embraced so well, it's hard, like, you know, people are going through it and we have to support each other through that.

And if there's anything I can do in a building, which I try to do in Hamilton, just And [00:51:00] just bring the joy, but also bring a listening ear, bring some, anything that I can bring. 

Claire: You know, you are constantly putting yourself on the line every night. You're also taking on somebody else's emotions on a nightly basis, and I think having some mindfulness around that, being able to put yourself beside it at some point rather than in it because it can bleed in every direction in your life, right?

I think especially when you're telling these really difficult stories, you know, Eponine and Eliza, they have some difficult stories to tell. I think being able to have ways of keeping yourself safe and grounded is really important. And I see that with so many singers and, and that's Similarly then can bleed into the function of the voice because the voice is our emotions.

Yeah, the two things are tied together. You've taken that one step even further 

Oren: because you've written a book. Yes, I'm excited for 

Claire: this. Show us the [00:52:00] book. Yes. The Shan vibe. 

Shan: Here we 

Claire: are. So tell us about that. 

Shan: It's basically a confirmation of all my little quotes and journals that I wrote over the years.

It's when I started the page and I put them into a book and I designed it and it's kind of, yeah, my thoughts and words of encouragement. So yeah, I'm really happy it's out and people are loving it. Did it change it to have it in print? It did. Wow. Did that feel different? Yeah. I was like, wow, a whole author, can I call myself an author?

Claire: Yeah. Absolutely. I would say so. Hello. Not just an 

Oren: author, a published author. Yeah. 

Shan: Wow. This is such a lovely book. I really love this. I'm going to get you guys a coffee. You've got to have your coffees. Yeah. It's been. I really like this. It's like, I can have, that's there forever. My, my [00:53:00] offsprings can, can have that, but 

Claire: there's, there's a difference isn't there between what you do on stage, because that's there that night and then you get to recreate it the next day.

Does it feel different to make something that is now it, it's that, and you know, I mean, it feels 

Shan: good. I, I, it does make me want to do more. Great. Yeah. I want to, um, I'm even thinking of like rebranding the name in a, in a way and just. Yeah, I'm just like exploring more things and getting into like, um, you know, it could be advice on performer's life or like how to maintain, how to sustain in the industry and or like quotes to the singers.

I don't know. Yeah. It's like, right. Just different things like that. We'll see. There's so much I want to elaborate on with the Shan Vibe and I don't know if I'll hold the name The Shan Vibe. I don't know. We'll see. Um. I'm trying to explore with other names as well. Okay, so it's growing. It's growing, but we have something good and a nice [00:54:00] community over there that, um, I really appreciate.

Oren: It's addictive, isn't it? Yeah. Like once you, once you started penning something, it's very hard to not keep going. Yeah. So I, I mean, it's beautiful. I think the design The structure. I think it's such a lovely book. 

Shan: I was so encouraged like to get it out and keep going. And because it was a long process, I was like, Oh, I gotta do the, gotta edit the book and gotta read for it.

And how long did 

Oren: it take you to piece together? 

Shan: A couple of years, like just stopping and starting, you know? Yeah. 

Oren: Where can people get it? 

Shan: On Amazon, on my website, it's on Amazon, 

Oren: yeah. That's, I mean, that's exciting, isn't it? It's on 

Shan: Amazon. Um, and on my website, and, yeah, I think that's it at the moment. And a Kindle as well.

We will put some links up. We'll put 

Claire: some links in [00:55:00] the downstairs bits. I think it's really, what, what really fascinates me is you went to university and you did business. Music and business. And, and here you are. As a performer, channeling what you know as a performer, channeling what you know as a human, and connection with other humans.

And then that business thing is coming in underneath. It's, it's really amazing. You really are the sum of your parts. It's really, you're living 

Shan: proof. And this day and age, especially with social media, like, you're You do it all these days, isn't it? Not that, you know, you can, you delegate and stuff, but content creating and performing and, you know, there's a whole nother conversation of like, the, um, requirements or what's expected now as a performer in social media and your brand and, you know, you're not just a factor, you're a whole brand now.

Yeah. It's a lot. [00:56:00] Some of us, I think, if you can handle it, go for it and do it fully. But if you, if you can If you're just into the art, then that's absolutely fine as well. I enjoy the content creating, I enjoy all of that stuff, and I think that's good, so I always try and just keep going and keep, keep making the most of where I'm at in life.

I think, yeah. I never wanna, like, do a role or be in a position and, uh, feel like, oh, I didn't make the most of that. I really do wanna make the most of everything that I do, on stage, off stage, and really have a nice, a good effect on people and bring my best forward and You know, and then when I'm, you know, pouring out so much into people and then the times when I need pouring into, they're there to pour back into me.

And so, you know, collaboration, again, all that stuff, 

Claire: you are a very beautiful presence in the company. I, I know that from when you're, you know, you just you's a, there's such a graciousness and such a calm around you. I thank you. Imagine people, [00:57:00] you think of me from coming to you. I felt that. 

Oren: Like, right now as well.

It's such a calm space. It just makes me feel I don't know. Yeah, like I'm I haven't zoned out, but you know what I mean? I feel like I'm just kind of like, so relaxed. That's good, that's 

Shan: good. That's so interesting. And you've been with me on the journey, especially my musical theatre journey, from Les Mis to Hamilton.

Claire: But I would say that that That vibe has been with you since the minute I met you. That's, that's the essence of you. 

Oren: That would be the Shan 

Claire: vibe. Ha ha ha 

Shan: ha ha. I think it's about being just grounded, grounded and um, not necessarily me being in control, but knowing whatever you believe in, knowing who is in control and what's in control and, and stuff.

Just knowing that what's going to happen, you've done your bit, so what, you know, let the rest [00:58:00] flow. 

Claire: I think there's a very powerful connection there of awareness of what is in your control and real guts and determination to do it. You know, if you piece together that, that sense of, I can influence this.

And I'm doing it because I practice and I practice and I practice and I do all the things and I pay attention to what's helping me at the gym and what isn't helping like you have a very powerful combination there. Because to just say, Oh, it's important to be in the moment. You need the backup for that.

You need the action as well. And I think you very much bring both. 

Shan: Thank you. I'm trying and learning and it's been good. And even every experience that I go through and For anyone that is even listening and going through their musical theatre journey, or music journey, acting journey, whatever journey. Um, all the setbacks, you know, are set ups, you know.

I love that little quote. You know, if you go for an audition, [00:59:00] which I've been through many auditions and got no's. You know, Hamilton, that was a no I received the first time around. And it's okay, like, you know, the world is not over. Like, what can you learn from this? Let's keep going. Okay. What do I need to do next time?

What's working what isn't working and It's about I think we can definitely gain from having the right people around us like coaches and people that know us as well and Seeking that wise counsel will help you just have to know who they are and pick wisely Pick what feels right as well, 

Claire: I think. You know, it might change in the future.

You might decide actually this doesn't feel right anymore. But I think if you're picking relationships that feel good, you're probably on to a winner there. Yeah, 

Shan: yeah. And the fruits will show. Yeah, I think the fruits will show from that as well. [01:00:00] Sian, thank you so much for sharing your story with us. I loved it, it's been such a beautiful conversation and the tea has been beautiful.

The tea's very tasty, it's true. You guys 

Claire: are amazing. Um, we have two more questions for you. Okay. 

Oren: Oh yes, I completely forgot. 

Claire: Uh, one is, the show's called The Five Minute Call. Yes. What do you do at The Five Minute Call? 

Shan: Do you really want to know what I'm doing? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I could be Finishing my food, painting my nails, finishing my makeup, rushing to brush my teeth, um, putting warm water in my, in my cup so that I can have my drink for the, for the night and then rushing downstairs.

There's a lot that could be happening, or I could be on a TikTok live saying hi to everyone. Also on the phone, yeah. 

Claire: It's amazing. The picture we're building of five minutes before the show from all the [01:01:00] answers we've been given. It's general chaos back there, right? It is pandemonium! It's a lot of people going, ahhh!

I'm on TikTok live 

Shan: and people are like, the five minute call is gone, shun! Ivy Panagin, that's what they say. It's amazing, thank you. 

Oren: So our second little tradition is We get the previous guest to write a question for the next guest, and it goes completely unseen until the moment we read it out. So, okay, I feel like this is very appropriate for you as well.

What is the best piece of advice that you have received? 

Shan: Wow, best piece of advice I've received, gosh that's a big one. Um, there's a couple, I'll give you two. I'd say, Trust and believe, um, and then what's for you will not pass you. [01:02:00] 

Oren: So beautiful. And also, interestingly, exactly what Alexia Kadeem said as well.

Shan: So true, which 

Oren: I fully believe in we are super 

Claire: excited to see what happens for you next. Good luck with your big move. Thank you. It's really, it's our loss, but I'm very excited for you. And I know you're coming back. 

Shan: Yeah. Thank you. I appreciate your support and what you're building as well. And, and all that you poured into me as well over the few years, such a pleasure and all that you pulled into, into.

Me, and like, with your, with your gifts, and you're sharing your gifts, and you're, you guys are a blessing to the industry. And I'm just glad, I'm glad to have spent this moment with you both. so 

Oren: much, that is Really lovely. That's a very lovely way to end our day. Thank you. Thank you. We really hope you enjoyed this episode of The 5 Minute Call.

Don't forget to hit that subscribe [01:03:00] button, like this video and ring the bell for notifications. Your support really helps us bring you more amazing stories. 

Claire: If you are or have been affected by any of the topics discussed in today's episode, please see the show notes below for some helpful resources.